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radio network

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don't run and hide don't be afraid

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don't turn away any longer

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the truth will set you free

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and now your host the captain of

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conspiracy the prince of paranormal

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this ain't your daddy's radio network

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show

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all right

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that's what i'm talking about

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this is fade to black today's tuesday

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february 18 2014

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or 48 days into the new year

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we are live from the jp motorsports

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mobile studios right here in studio city

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california

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for kjcr in the dark matter radio

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network i am your host jimmy church

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let's start off every show the same way

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started off with the salute to the proud

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men and women in uniform all around the

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world fighting the good fight for us

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without them there is no me there is no

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you

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there is no us

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today happy birthday to john travolta

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our dead guy birthday without him there

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is no

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show tonight

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follow us on twitter at j church radio

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facebook

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youtube everything is fade to black

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jimmy church radio j church you know

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what to do go and follow like and

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subscribe tonight

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we won't be taking your calls because we

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are live with richard dolan right here

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in studio city

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you can email throughout the show if you

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have something the producers back at the

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studio we'll get it back to us

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and if you have anything that you want

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to ask richard tonight throughout the

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show if it's good

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i'll read it on the air

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the bumper music tonight as always is

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doug aldridge from the band white snake

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we gotta thank doug for every show

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and we are just gonna jump right into

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this after the show tonight i will jump

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into the forums over on the website

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stan's blog everything is good over

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there

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over at artbell.com

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there's a new article go check it out

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it's by a british astronaut and he says

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there must be alien life on other

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planets and i read it this morning go

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and check it out tonight we have a very

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special show

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we are live with their upars

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presentation

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with richard dolan here in studio city

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california we got a packed house in

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front of us pretty cool very unique

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experience and i want to welcome

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everybody around the world listening to

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the show

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we're gonna run

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with our advertisers tonight they have

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agreed we are gonna run commercial free

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now this is what we're gonna do

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we're gonna do two hours with richard

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we're gonna cover his new book

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ufos in the 21st century mine we have a

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bunch in the back by the way

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and then the last hour

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live studio audience is going to be

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asking richard some questions

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is everybody ready for this is going to

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be a great night

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so

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with that let's just kill the music and

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let's get going

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richard dolan

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is among the world's leading researchers

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and historians of the ufo subject

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is the author of two volumes of history

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ufos in the national security state

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volumes one and two

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as well as an analysis of the future a.d

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he has also appeared on the history

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channel sci-fi bbc and elsewhere since

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2012 richard has hosted the richard

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dolan show airing on kgra radio his

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books

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articles and many interviews richard has

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analyzed the destruction of our

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political libraries as a result of the

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ufo cover-up

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the possible nature of the non-humans

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themselves what their presence means for

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our civilization and why he believes the

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cover-up will end within our lifetime

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dolan attended alfred university and

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oxford university prior to graduate work

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in history at the university of

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rochester i would like to welcome to

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fade to black mr richard dolan richard

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hi jimmy and uh what a what a treat it

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is to be here with a live audience

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watching us uh do this this great radio

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show so thank you well uh really quick

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before we get started we we tried to put

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the show together for the last couple of

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months

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and uh if you know to put this together

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tonight with upars and this type of

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presentation i just want to thank you

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and it was a lot of work a lot of effort

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but thank you and welcome to l.a

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oh it's my pleasure and regarding upars

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it's just really worth uh mentioning

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that um this is an independent

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organization that had once been part of

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a larger organization and what's great

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about what is happening here is that

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i think it's the best thing you have

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people taking charge of their own

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destiny running their own

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their own type of organization and and

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following

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their interest in this topic in the way

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that they think is best and doing it

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their way so i want to thank steve

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morello who's here up on the stage with

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us who's organizing all of this and

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really had

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was um

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you know he's the brains of the outfit

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and he uh he made it he helped make it

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happen oh my pleasure thank you uh

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richard i appreciate that thank you

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thanks

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i have i have one other friend i just

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want to thank who also really made this

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happen she's michelle mountain and she's

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here with me today and helping sell some

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books and um

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she made a lot of this happen as well

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all right

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michelle um uh a couple of things uh

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really quick uh we have a lot to cover

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tonight but

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uh

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i have on the show this is what's really

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funny

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and i've had some of the biggest and the

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brightest in ufology on the show and i

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always started off like this

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it's just a conversation we're sitting

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in my living room let's relax and have a

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con here tonight

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it's a perfect it's delicious

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exactly exactly okay so um

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you could have done

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anything

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with your education you could be

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tenured somewhere teaching history and

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comfortable and secure

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but you took a right turn somewhere what

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happened yeah well that was my goal uh

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all through my 20s i thought well i'll

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just go teach history at a university

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get a nice job get tenure and

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get my summers off hang out right and

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and it looked like it would be a good

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life and i became

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the only way i can say that i became

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obsessed by the ufo topic in my early

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30s

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about 20 years ago i stumbled into it

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and simply all that means is i

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you know i'd been studying american cold

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war history very very uh deeply at that

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time everything having to do with harry

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truman circa 1950 russian relations

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birth of the

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intelligence community and post-war

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america

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that was my life and had nothing to do

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with the ufo topic in the academic world

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they just don't do that

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but i was

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bopping around at a bookstore one day

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and i saw a ufo conspiracy book that was

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subtitled the worldwide ufo cover-up

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i thought really

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well i'd like to know is there something

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like this or not it covered a lot of the

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period of history that i was studying at

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that time

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and uh when you and everyone look who

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hasn't at some point or another wonder

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gee i wonder if there's a ufo cover up

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every i think everyone not in just in

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this room but out in the world has

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thought about this at some point

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and uh with my particular background

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what i was studying i i thought i'm

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going to look into it now there's a lot

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of other people who study cold war

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history and they don't get into ufos so

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why did i

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that i would have a harder time

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answering um

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but i will say that

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i had a professor years later who after

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i published my first book he said

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richard

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you were always searching for something

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a little bit beyond what we had to offer

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you and that was actually his words

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so i looked at the ufo topic and i

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thought i don't know if this is real or

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this is a lot of nonsense but uh this

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looks like it's a serious book so i'll

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read it

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and um i was very intrigued because he

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had some documents that looked like they

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were legit and i thought well let's go

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further and then i thought i'll take

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three months out of my life

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that was the amount three months i

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thought i'm going to research this i'm

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going to dive in i will find out what is

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the strength of the argument of the

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believers do they really have something

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to stand on or not and my way of doing

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it was to go through the bibliography

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look at all the old books how

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strong was the argument and i got hooked

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i mean that's what pulled me right in

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was there something uh was there a

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specific case back in your

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you know as you were starting out was

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there one case that just made you

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scratch your head and go hmm

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yeah there were a couple of cases and a

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couple of military documents and

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intelligence community documents that

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was always my background that really

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remains my primary interest in this is

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looking at confirmed

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declassified

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primarily u.s government documents that

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tested the reality

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and through those documents

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you get

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military

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statements of various types

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my attitude and

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my desire to focus on the military cases

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initially was very simple

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everyone can see a ufo and often those

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sightings are legit yes but when the

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military encounters a ufo the military

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is obligated to do something about it

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i wanted to know

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what were the nature of these encounters

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and what did they do what did they think

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about it well here's basically what i

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learned

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in the declassified literature that we

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have and by the way we only had a really

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brief window where the the freedom of

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information act was truly useful for the

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ufo topic that's right

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a lot of people don't realize this they

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think i'll just issue a foia request and

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get what you need but it doesn't really

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it's not that simple but in the late

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00:10:24,389 --> 00:10:22,480
1970s thank you jimmy carter we had a

284
00:10:25,509 --> 00:10:24,399
freedom of information act that was

285
00:10:27,350 --> 00:10:25,519
useful

286
00:10:28,870 --> 00:10:27,360
that did allow for the release of

287
00:10:31,030 --> 00:10:28,880
thousands of pages of interesting

288
00:10:33,269 --> 00:10:31,040
documents so based on those i just

289
00:10:34,550 --> 00:10:33,279
looked at many many of them

290
00:10:35,829 --> 00:10:34,560
and what you find are really two

291
00:10:38,790 --> 00:10:35,839
fundamental things you find some

292
00:10:41,269 --> 00:10:38,800
interesting sightings

293
00:10:43,670 --> 00:10:41,279
over one example over oak ridge nuclear

294
00:10:46,630 --> 00:10:43,680
facility in the early 1950s an engineer

295
00:10:47,829 --> 00:10:46,640
described how a black object appeared

296
00:10:50,470 --> 00:10:47,839
from a

297
00:10:53,030 --> 00:10:50,480
very very fast speed then stopped

298
00:10:55,030 --> 00:10:53,040
joined by two other black objects and

299
00:10:56,870 --> 00:10:55,040
then they shot off at a tremendous speed

300
00:10:58,870 --> 00:10:56,880
toward the east and he's scratching his

301
00:11:00,069 --> 00:10:58,880
head oak ridge was a very big deal

302
00:11:01,750 --> 00:11:00,079
that's where a lot of our atomic

303
00:11:04,470 --> 00:11:01,760
research was being done

304
00:11:06,310 --> 00:11:04,480
lots of sightings by uh military pilots

305
00:11:07,670 --> 00:11:06,320
in the 40s and 50s that were recorded in

306
00:11:09,430 --> 00:11:07,680
these documents showing equally

307
00:11:11,110 --> 00:11:09,440
extraordinary things so that was one

308
00:11:13,910 --> 00:11:11,120
part of it the other thing was the

309
00:11:16,310 --> 00:11:13,920
analyses one was a famous memo a lot of

310
00:11:19,030 --> 00:11:16,320
ufo researchers know it very well

311
00:11:20,389 --> 00:11:19,040
called the twining memo 1947 general

312
00:11:22,790 --> 00:11:20,399
nathan twining

313
00:11:23,750 --> 00:11:22,800
who later became head of the u.s air

314
00:11:25,269 --> 00:11:23,760
force

315
00:11:27,030 --> 00:11:25,279
wrote a memo to another general in

316
00:11:30,550 --> 00:11:27,040
september of that year and he said look

317
00:11:32,470 --> 00:11:30,560
this phenomenon is real not visionary or

318
00:11:34,550 --> 00:11:32,480
fictitious how much more solid do you

319
00:11:36,630 --> 00:11:34,560
want of a statement the phenomenon is

320
00:11:38,550 --> 00:11:36,640
real not visionary or fictitious

321
00:11:40,949 --> 00:11:38,560
and then he went on to describe the

322
00:11:43,350 --> 00:11:40,959
nature of the the military

323
00:11:45,990 --> 00:11:43,360
uh visual

324
00:11:48,710 --> 00:11:46,000
sightings of these objects and

325
00:11:51,030 --> 00:11:48,720
saying they're typically disc shaped

326
00:11:54,069 --> 00:11:51,040
well that's interesting

327
00:11:55,030 --> 00:11:54,079
uh dome shape rounded on top flat on the

328
00:11:58,069 --> 00:11:55,040
bottom

329
00:11:59,910 --> 00:11:58,079
what what is that in 1947 right silent

330
00:12:01,350 --> 00:11:59,920
or nearly silent evasive maneuvers one

331
00:12:03,990 --> 00:12:01,360
side so here you have a very detailed

332
00:12:05,590 --> 00:12:04,000
military analysis when i read that

333
00:12:06,790 --> 00:12:05,600
i just thought wow

334
00:12:07,750 --> 00:12:06,800
because

335
00:12:09,509 --> 00:12:07,760
look

336
00:12:11,110 --> 00:12:09,519
even if nathan twining and the other

337
00:12:12,310 --> 00:12:11,120
analysts were wrong

338
00:12:15,190 --> 00:12:12,320
about this

339
00:12:17,509 --> 00:12:15,200
it was obvious that they were interested

340
00:12:19,590 --> 00:12:17,519
and so why was this absent from every

341
00:12:21,269 --> 00:12:19,600
every academic history book it ever read

342
00:12:23,110 --> 00:12:21,279
you have this significant thing here and

343
00:12:24,470 --> 00:12:23,120
what in what version of reality is that

344
00:12:26,069 --> 00:12:24,480
not interesting that's right that's

345
00:12:28,230 --> 00:12:26,079
right you know in the context of the

346
00:12:31,190 --> 00:12:28,240
cold war in the context of of

347
00:12:32,710 --> 00:12:31,200
post-war america it's damned interesting

348
00:12:34,790 --> 00:12:32,720
and i wanted to know

349
00:12:38,150 --> 00:12:34,800
how serious did this get and the thing

350
00:12:39,670 --> 00:12:38,160
about this phenomenon the ufo subject is

351
00:12:41,430 --> 00:12:39,680
that it's uh

352
00:12:44,710 --> 00:12:41,440
i mean we can call it a rabbit hole but

353
00:12:47,750 --> 00:12:44,720
really what it is it's a a gateway

354
00:12:50,069 --> 00:12:47,760
into a full range of fascinating other

355
00:12:53,269 --> 00:12:50,079
questions questions and issues and

356
00:12:54,069 --> 00:12:53,279
subject matter um what i found is that

357
00:12:56,629 --> 00:12:54,079
one

358
00:12:58,150 --> 00:12:56,639
question led to multiple more questions

359
00:12:59,509 --> 00:12:58,160
and each one of those led to many many

360
00:13:01,110 --> 00:12:59,519
more questions

361
00:13:03,910 --> 00:13:01,120
for example

362
00:13:06,550 --> 00:13:03,920
no and it can be endless i mean as you

363
00:13:08,230 --> 00:13:06,560
exactly yes you know where not only

364
00:13:10,550 --> 00:13:08,240
where is the academic community in this

365
00:13:12,150 --> 00:13:10,560
i mean what does that say how can we is

366
00:13:14,470 --> 00:13:12,160
there a connection with the intelligence

367
00:13:16,629 --> 00:13:14,480
world yes there is world of the

368
00:13:18,550 --> 00:13:16,639
mainstream media ditto why weren't they

369
00:13:20,470 --> 00:13:18,560
covering this the way that rational

370
00:13:21,910 --> 00:13:20,480
ordinary intelligent people would think

371
00:13:23,990 --> 00:13:21,920
this should be covered in in an

372
00:13:25,269 --> 00:13:24,000
intelligent way and it wasn't so i would

373
00:13:28,230 --> 00:13:25,279
ask all of these other questions then

374
00:13:30,310 --> 00:13:28,240
you get into larger politics how bad um

375
00:13:31,990 --> 00:13:30,320
how big is this cover-up is it is it

376
00:13:33,430 --> 00:13:32,000
something that the president really

377
00:13:35,269 --> 00:13:33,440
knows about doesn't know about this

378
00:13:36,790 --> 00:13:35,279
military are they just scratching their

379
00:13:37,990 --> 00:13:36,800
head running around trying to hide the

380
00:13:39,670 --> 00:13:38,000
fact that they don't know or do they

381
00:13:41,590 --> 00:13:39,680
have something more tangible that

382
00:13:43,509 --> 00:13:41,600
they're hiding you get into all of these

383
00:13:45,750 --> 00:13:43,519
issues it's endless it's an endless

384
00:13:47,829 --> 00:13:45,760
series of questions

385
00:13:48,949 --> 00:13:47,839
but uh simply because you get more

386
00:13:52,629 --> 00:13:48,959
questions doesn't mean it isn't worth

387
00:13:56,069 --> 00:13:52,639
your time to look into i have to uh uh

388
00:13:58,870 --> 00:13:56,079
i'm sitting in for art bell uh on uh on

389
00:14:00,230 --> 00:13:58,880
the dark matter radio network uh while

390
00:14:03,590 --> 00:14:00,240
art is away

391
00:14:05,670 --> 00:14:03,600
and i'm gonna ask a question

392
00:14:07,590 --> 00:14:05,680
for art because this is something he

393
00:14:08,470 --> 00:14:07,600
would probably ask and i have

394
00:14:12,230 --> 00:14:08,480
the

395
00:14:13,910 --> 00:14:12,240
uh you represent a newer generation of

396
00:14:15,910 --> 00:14:13,920
ufologists

397
00:14:18,230 --> 00:14:15,920
what i mean by that well okay and what i

398
00:14:19,590 --> 00:14:18,240
mean by that is this um

399
00:14:22,069 --> 00:14:19,600
uh

400
00:14:24,389 --> 00:14:22,079
you are challenging stuff from a

401
00:14:26,389 --> 00:14:24,399
different point of

402
00:14:28,870 --> 00:14:26,399
a different mindset

403
00:14:32,389 --> 00:14:28,880
than what was occurring in the 50s 60s

404
00:14:35,590 --> 00:14:32,399
and 70s and probably the 80s too as well

405
00:14:37,829 --> 00:14:35,600
and now everybody looks to you

406
00:14:40,310 --> 00:14:37,839
with a a different set of eyes too and

407
00:14:43,350 --> 00:14:40,320
they must come up and ask all of those

408
00:14:44,710 --> 00:14:43,360
questions all of the time if you being

409
00:14:50,550 --> 00:14:44,720
the

410
00:14:52,550 --> 00:14:50,560
that and it must happen all day long it

411
00:14:55,269 --> 00:14:52,560
happened it does happen every day when i

412
00:14:57,670 --> 00:14:55,279
get a nice uh congratulatory email from

413
00:14:59,670 --> 00:14:57,680
a reader or a fan of my books

414
00:15:01,829 --> 00:14:59,680
i have two immediate reactions one is i

415
00:15:04,230 --> 00:15:01,839
get a nice happy feeling like oh good

416
00:15:05,750 --> 00:15:04,240
someone likes what i have to do or what

417
00:15:07,509 --> 00:15:05,760
i have to say

418
00:15:08,790 --> 00:15:07,519
and then the other side of it is i don't

419
00:15:10,389 --> 00:15:08,800
know if it's quite a feeling of dread

420
00:15:12,790 --> 00:15:10,399
but it's something close to that because

421
00:15:15,269 --> 00:15:12,800
i think well this is a person

422
00:15:18,389 --> 00:15:15,279
who is putting investing some kind of

423
00:15:20,310 --> 00:15:18,399
hope or um expectation in what i do

424
00:15:22,949 --> 00:15:20,320
right and i certainly i'd never want to

425
00:15:25,189 --> 00:15:22,959
let any any of these um individuals down

426
00:15:26,949 --> 00:15:25,199
so the dread is this feeling of look

427
00:15:28,470 --> 00:15:26,959
this is serious it's a responsibility

428
00:15:31,750 --> 00:15:28,480
i'm not going to blow it

429
00:15:33,509 --> 00:15:31,760
uh when i'm asked to answer questions

430
00:15:35,670 --> 00:15:33,519
and look here the thing is

431
00:15:37,189 --> 00:15:35,680
you're going to make a huge mistake

432
00:15:40,230 --> 00:15:37,199
if you pretend that you're some guru

433
00:15:41,750 --> 00:15:40,240
who's got the answers and and then the

434
00:15:43,829 --> 00:15:41,760
most important thing for me to remember

435
00:15:45,990 --> 00:15:43,839
is to use the words i don't know

436
00:15:47,269 --> 00:15:46,000
for a lot of these questions i'm happy

437
00:15:48,949 --> 00:15:47,279
to speculate

438
00:15:50,629 --> 00:15:48,959
but it's essential

439
00:15:52,310 --> 00:15:50,639
and particularly in this field where

440
00:15:53,749 --> 00:15:52,320
we're really it's not simply that we're

441
00:15:54,870 --> 00:15:53,759
dealing with a cover-up but makes it

442
00:15:57,350 --> 00:15:54,880
hard enough but we're dealing with a

443
00:15:59,829 --> 00:15:57,360
genuinely difficult topic that i i

444
00:16:01,189 --> 00:15:59,839
really have suspected is at the edge of

445
00:16:05,749 --> 00:16:01,199
our

446
00:16:07,670 --> 00:16:05,759
comprehend not necessarily beyond but

447
00:16:08,790 --> 00:16:07,680
it's in a lot of ways it's at the edges

448
00:16:10,870 --> 00:16:08,800
when we deal with

449
00:16:12,470 --> 00:16:10,880
scientific issues especially

450
00:16:15,509 --> 00:16:12,480
so i'm never afraid to admit if i don't

451
00:16:17,829 --> 00:16:15,519
know something and and um believe me

452
00:16:19,430 --> 00:16:17,839
if once you go down that that road of

453
00:16:21,350 --> 00:16:19,440
pretending that you know

454
00:16:22,870 --> 00:16:21,360
oh yes i read that book or yes i'm very

455
00:16:24,550 --> 00:16:22,880
familiar and then you're getting into a

456
00:16:26,230 --> 00:16:24,560
really dangerous territory and i don't

457
00:16:29,590 --> 00:16:26,240
ever want to go there well there is a

458
00:16:32,150 --> 00:16:29,600
video on youtube and it's entitled of

459
00:16:35,110 --> 00:16:32,160
you that that the greatest 10 minute

460
00:16:36,949 --> 00:16:35,120
speech is ufo history right

461
00:16:38,550 --> 00:16:36,959
and that's that's tough i was happy to

462
00:16:39,670 --> 00:16:38,560
see them title it happened i won't lie

463
00:16:41,110 --> 00:16:39,680
to you

464
00:16:47,030 --> 00:16:41,120
i mean

465
00:16:49,350 --> 00:16:47,040
so okay let's move on really quick um

466
00:16:52,470 --> 00:16:49,360
why this book now

467
00:16:53,990 --> 00:16:52,480
um the title says it says it all but

468
00:16:55,910 --> 00:16:54,000
why now

469
00:16:57,430 --> 00:16:55,920
well um you know you said a little while

470
00:16:59,509 --> 00:16:57,440
ago that i i was part of a new

471
00:17:01,430 --> 00:16:59,519
generation of researchers i'm a new

472
00:17:03,670 --> 00:17:01,440
generation with hair that's rapidly

473
00:17:06,470 --> 00:17:03,680
graying but when i um when i entered

474
00:17:08,230 --> 00:17:06,480
this field i was considered very very

475
00:17:10,549 --> 00:17:08,240
new in certain ways that was in 2000

476
00:17:12,150 --> 00:17:10,559
when my first book was published

477
00:17:13,909 --> 00:17:12,160
and i will um

478
00:17:15,429 --> 00:17:13,919
here's what was different about it and

479
00:17:17,510 --> 00:17:15,439
it and i'll get to this book in just a

480
00:17:19,750 --> 00:17:17,520
second because my first book was was

481
00:17:22,230 --> 00:17:19,760
also something new it was an attempt to

482
00:17:23,750 --> 00:17:22,240
do a historical narrative of this topic

483
00:17:25,750 --> 00:17:23,760
that really hadn't been done

484
00:17:27,189 --> 00:17:25,760
particularly with a political angle and

485
00:17:28,710 --> 00:17:27,199
trying to understand

486
00:17:30,630 --> 00:17:28,720
how the

487
00:17:32,150 --> 00:17:30,640
military cover-up worked

488
00:17:33,750 --> 00:17:32,160
it was a comprehensive view at that time

489
00:17:36,070 --> 00:17:33,760
and i caught a lot of hell from that by

490
00:17:37,750 --> 00:17:36,080
the way from a few of the more um the

491
00:17:39,270 --> 00:17:37,760
older researchers in the field they were

492
00:17:41,270 --> 00:17:39,280
not happy they said it's conspiracy

493
00:17:43,350 --> 00:17:41,280
mongering and whatnot

494
00:17:45,590 --> 00:17:43,360
and i i really felt that it was a new

495
00:17:47,270 --> 00:17:45,600
approach that was 14 years ago ever

496
00:17:49,909 --> 00:17:47,280
since i've been in this field publicly i

497
00:17:51,110 --> 00:17:49,919
have always pushed myself always

498
00:17:53,270 --> 00:17:51,120
to explore

499
00:17:54,870 --> 00:17:53,280
this territory in a refreshing way as i

500
00:17:57,990 --> 00:17:54,880
can

501
00:17:59,590 --> 00:17:58,000
look if if someone were to say to me

502
00:18:01,029 --> 00:17:59,600
uh you're going to write a couple of

503
00:18:03,510 --> 00:18:01,039
good volumes of history that will lay

504
00:18:04,950 --> 00:18:03,520
this out clearly for people i would be i

505
00:18:06,390 --> 00:18:04,960
would think okay well that's nice but if

506
00:18:07,270 --> 00:18:06,400
someone were to tell me you're going to

507
00:18:09,830 --> 00:18:07,280
write

508
00:18:11,590 --> 00:18:09,840
books that will challenge people that

509
00:18:13,190 --> 00:18:11,600
will challenge yourself that will make

510
00:18:14,549 --> 00:18:13,200
people sometimes shake their fists at

511
00:18:15,590 --> 00:18:14,559
the heavens

512
00:18:17,110 --> 00:18:15,600
if they were telling me that that's

513
00:18:18,150 --> 00:18:17,120
something that's worth spending my life

514
00:18:21,029 --> 00:18:18,160
doing

515
00:18:23,510 --> 00:18:21,039
so i want to spend my whole rest of what

516
00:18:24,549 --> 00:18:23,520
i have here on this earth pushing myself

517
00:18:28,390 --> 00:18:24,559
and

518
00:18:30,150 --> 00:18:28,400
as i'm able to do

519
00:18:33,110 --> 00:18:30,160
when i came to this book ufos for the

520
00:18:34,950 --> 00:18:33,120
21st century mind

521
00:18:38,549 --> 00:18:34,960
really the the thing about it is that

522
00:18:39,350 --> 00:18:38,559
there has not been in my own opinion

523
00:18:41,750 --> 00:18:39,360
um

524
00:18:43,590 --> 00:18:41,760
an adequate overview of the whole topic

525
00:18:46,950 --> 00:18:43,600
i mean the whole messy incredible

526
00:18:49,190 --> 00:18:46,960
fabulous mysterious topic of ufos

527
00:18:51,510 --> 00:18:49,200
and i'm not pretending that i have

528
00:18:54,070 --> 00:18:51,520
covered every single thing in these 500

529
00:18:56,789 --> 00:18:54,080
pages but i tried i tried to cover the

530
00:18:58,630 --> 00:18:56,799
things that are relevant to a per to a

531
00:19:00,310 --> 00:18:58,640
thinking person today

532
00:19:02,230 --> 00:19:00,320
in the 21st century

533
00:19:04,070 --> 00:19:02,240
when you look at some of the older uh

534
00:19:07,110 --> 00:19:04,080
books about this subject i mean from the

535
00:19:09,669 --> 00:19:07,120
1980s and 70s and beyond

536
00:19:12,470 --> 00:19:09,679
they're often very good but uh they just

537
00:19:14,390 --> 00:19:12,480
read old they just you know it's like

538
00:19:16,549 --> 00:19:14,400
looking at sightings well how large was

539
00:19:18,230 --> 00:19:16,559
the object when you hold your arm at

540
00:19:19,510 --> 00:19:18,240
arm's length and is it the size of a

541
00:19:21,909 --> 00:19:19,520
nickel

542
00:19:23,110 --> 00:19:21,919
um i think we're past a lot of that and

543
00:19:24,310 --> 00:19:23,120
it doesn't mean that we can't we

544
00:19:26,390 --> 00:19:24,320
shouldn't be critically minded with

545
00:19:28,230 --> 00:19:26,400
sightings today but for me i wanted to

546
00:19:30,150 --> 00:19:28,240
do as comprehensive a view of this topic

547
00:19:31,270 --> 00:19:30,160
as i could so what what does that mean

548
00:19:33,750 --> 00:19:31,280
that means we have to understand the

549
00:19:35,750 --> 00:19:33,760
history from ancient aliens or ancient

550
00:19:37,270 --> 00:19:35,760
ufos up till today and i did provide

551
00:19:39,990 --> 00:19:37,280
that so there's several chapters that

552
00:19:42,230 --> 00:19:40,000
just give of in my estimation

553
00:19:43,270 --> 00:19:42,240
how best to understand the history of

554
00:19:45,750 --> 00:19:43,280
the

555
00:19:47,430 --> 00:19:45,760
most compelling sightings

556
00:19:50,230 --> 00:19:47,440
and what we make of them but there's

557
00:19:51,510 --> 00:19:50,240
much more there's politics there's a

558
00:19:52,950 --> 00:19:51,520
couple of chapters dealing with that

559
00:19:55,350 --> 00:19:52,960
including what i would call the deep

560
00:19:56,870 --> 00:19:55,360
politics the black budget world what

561
00:19:59,430 --> 00:19:56,880
i've sometimes called the breakaway

562
00:20:01,270 --> 00:19:59,440
civilization how is this financed how

563
00:20:03,669 --> 00:20:01,280
does the whole thing run and

564
00:20:05,750 --> 00:20:03,679
i continue to push myself and to get

565
00:20:07,110 --> 00:20:05,760
as many new insights into this topic as

566
00:20:08,870 --> 00:20:07,120
i can i've been talking about this for a

567
00:20:10,549 --> 00:20:08,880
few years but there's more than that to

568
00:20:12,950 --> 00:20:10,559
the ufo topic

569
00:20:15,990 --> 00:20:12,960
there's you know for people of the 21st

570
00:20:17,830 --> 00:20:16,000
century how for any armchair researcher

571
00:20:19,830 --> 00:20:17,840
any of us sitting out here tonight how

572
00:20:22,310 --> 00:20:19,840
not to get hosed by the next hoax that

573
00:20:24,150 --> 00:20:22,320
comes down road from youtube or the next

574
00:20:26,710 --> 00:20:24,160
facebook room and that's in front of you

575
00:20:29,510 --> 00:20:26,720
so i talk a lot about critical thinking

576
00:20:31,029 --> 00:20:29,520
in this field there's a lot that i've

577
00:20:33,270 --> 00:20:31,039
talked about relating to the nature of

578
00:20:34,470 --> 00:20:33,280
contact or alleged contact or parent

579
00:20:36,789 --> 00:20:34,480
contact

580
00:20:38,549 --> 00:20:36,799
and uh leading to speculation on who and

581
00:20:40,470 --> 00:20:38,559
what we're dealing with what what are

582
00:20:42,549 --> 00:20:40,480
these what is this phenomenon what is

583
00:20:44,310 --> 00:20:42,559
the intelligence behind it

584
00:20:46,149 --> 00:20:44,320
the favorite chapter i think of my whole

585
00:20:47,830 --> 00:20:46,159
of this book that i wrote is uh not a

586
00:20:50,230 --> 00:20:47,840
historical chapter it's the chapter on

587
00:20:51,750 --> 00:20:50,240
science i call it weird science i mean

588
00:20:54,789 --> 00:20:51,760
think about this

589
00:20:59,029 --> 00:20:57,830
touches upon so many profound scientific

590
00:21:00,710 --> 00:20:59,039
questions

591
00:21:02,630 --> 00:21:00,720
from something as simple as propulsion

592
00:21:04,470 --> 00:21:02,640
like how do these objects do what they

593
00:21:06,070 --> 00:21:04,480
do how does an object just

594
00:21:08,789 --> 00:21:06,080
sit there motionlessly and then

595
00:21:11,270 --> 00:21:08,799
instantly accelerate or zigzag that

596
00:21:13,350 --> 00:21:11,280
alone that's a mind blower that alone is

597
00:21:16,070 --> 00:21:13,360
a revolutionary scientific question for

598
00:21:17,029 --> 00:21:16,080
us to ask but then it gets crazy or

599
00:21:18,710 --> 00:21:17,039
still

600
00:21:20,870 --> 00:21:18,720
you've got

601
00:21:23,190 --> 00:21:20,880
uh energy what is the source of energy

602
00:21:25,110 --> 00:21:23,200
that they use you've got is interstellar

603
00:21:27,110 --> 00:21:25,120
flight questions like is it possible to

604
00:21:29,590 --> 00:21:27,120
travel through space well there's

605
00:21:30,789 --> 00:21:29,600
contemporary science that addresses

606
00:21:32,549 --> 00:21:30,799
these and i try to deal with it but it

607
00:21:34,070 --> 00:21:32,559
gets stranger still

608
00:21:36,549 --> 00:21:34,080
what about dimensions we talk about

609
00:21:38,630 --> 00:21:36,559
dimensions and ufology

610
00:21:40,549 --> 00:21:38,640
is this a valid thing to discuss and i i

611
00:21:43,190 --> 00:21:40,559
try to address this through string

612
00:21:45,190 --> 00:21:43,200
theory through consciousness itself

613
00:21:47,029 --> 00:21:45,200
which i think is the ultimate scientific

614
00:21:48,950 --> 00:21:47,039
question of the 21st century to deal

615
00:21:51,909 --> 00:21:48,960
with when we talk about this phenomenon

616
00:21:56,310 --> 00:21:53,750
contact that so many people have

617
00:21:59,110 --> 00:21:56,320
discussed described that seems to be

618
00:22:00,630 --> 00:21:59,120
telepathic with these other entities

619
00:22:02,470 --> 00:22:00,640
what is this all about what does this

620
00:22:04,950 --> 00:22:02,480
say about what we are

621
00:22:07,830 --> 00:22:04,960
our nature is as human beings that we're

622
00:22:08,789 --> 00:22:07,840
able to do this about them that they do

623
00:22:10,789 --> 00:22:08,799
this

624
00:22:13,750 --> 00:22:10,799
to us i mean there's account after

625
00:22:15,669 --> 00:22:13,760
account not simply during um abductions

626
00:22:17,510 --> 00:22:15,679
where people will constantly talk about

627
00:22:18,630 --> 00:22:17,520
telepathic connection but

628
00:22:20,789 --> 00:22:18,640
i have a couple of stories i've

629
00:22:22,310 --> 00:22:20,799
collected one woman wakes up at two in

630
00:22:24,549 --> 00:22:22,320
the morning in her bedroom sits up in

631
00:22:25,909 --> 00:22:24,559
her bed looks out her bedroom window

632
00:22:28,710 --> 00:22:25,919
is compelled to look out there and she

633
00:22:30,470 --> 00:22:28,720
sees an orange glowing orb in her yard

634
00:22:31,830 --> 00:22:30,480
so what what is that there's a

635
00:22:33,990 --> 00:22:31,840
connection that these have with our mind

636
00:22:35,430 --> 00:22:34,000
so consciousness is very important and

637
00:22:37,190 --> 00:22:35,440
then i just tried ending the book by

638
00:22:39,029 --> 00:22:37,200
looking at the future with a theme that

639
00:22:40,950 --> 00:22:39,039
i did discuss in the previous book that

640
00:22:43,430 --> 00:22:40,960
is a.d after disclosure

641
00:22:45,190 --> 00:22:43,440
but i i even update my thoughts for this

642
00:22:47,029 --> 00:22:45,200
so um

643
00:22:49,510 --> 00:22:47,039
what are we moving into what is the

644
00:22:50,230 --> 00:22:49,520
nature of how will this secret really

645
00:22:53,110 --> 00:22:50,240
end

646
00:22:55,909 --> 00:22:53,120
and what then and so these are to me

647
00:22:57,669 --> 00:22:55,919
when i think of the topic of ufos

648
00:22:59,350 --> 00:22:57,679
i think this is what's really relevant

649
00:23:01,190 --> 00:22:59,360
about it and i think of this book as

650
00:23:03,750 --> 00:23:01,200
like a 500 page love letter to the

651
00:23:06,549 --> 00:23:03,760
subject of ufos you touched upon

652
00:23:08,950 --> 00:23:06,559
something earlier uh which uh you

653
00:23:12,470 --> 00:23:08,960
started to talk about politics

654
00:23:14,950 --> 00:23:12,480
and how do you deal with um you know the

655
00:23:16,789 --> 00:23:14,960
topic of disclosure in washington dc do

656
00:23:21,510 --> 00:23:16,799
you have to

657
00:23:23,270 --> 00:23:21,520
you get at this information and

658
00:23:25,909 --> 00:23:23,280
uh when you're dealing with washington

659
00:23:28,230 --> 00:23:25,919
directly because you have been

660
00:23:31,510 --> 00:23:28,240
well i have been i i was in washington

661
00:23:34,390 --> 00:23:31,520
dc um less almost a year ago for what

662
00:23:35,430 --> 00:23:34,400
was called the citizens hearing exactly

663
00:23:38,950 --> 00:23:35,440
but

664
00:23:40,789 --> 00:23:38,960
the folks in dc the power players in dc

665
00:23:42,310 --> 00:23:40,799
they they're not really

666
00:23:43,590 --> 00:23:42,320
you know coming to me on moss i will

667
00:23:46,549 --> 00:23:43,600
just say that i mean there are people

668
00:23:49,110 --> 00:23:46,559
who quietly will talk to me for sure

669
00:23:53,270 --> 00:23:49,120
but in the uh in the citizen hearing in

670
00:23:55,190 --> 00:23:53,280
in last april into may of 2013

671
00:23:57,990 --> 00:23:55,200
um my goal

672
00:23:59,669 --> 00:23:58,000
was simply to address this topic as

673
00:24:01,590 --> 00:23:59,679
professionally as i could i actually i

674
00:24:03,270 --> 00:24:01,600
think i did six um

675
00:24:05,510 --> 00:24:03,280
testimonies the way it was organized if

676
00:24:07,669 --> 00:24:05,520
you some those who may not be familiar

677
00:24:09,430 --> 00:24:07,679
it was a week-long series of hearings in

678
00:24:11,510 --> 00:24:09,440
the national press club in washington dc

679
00:24:12,789 --> 00:24:11,520
it was organized by my colleague stephen

680
00:24:14,789 --> 00:24:12,799
bassett

681
00:24:17,029 --> 00:24:14,799
and he had six retired members of the

682
00:24:19,669 --> 00:24:17,039
u.s congress presiding over this and

683
00:24:22,070 --> 00:24:19,679
they listened to testimony and

684
00:24:23,590 --> 00:24:22,080
statements by about 40 individuals many

685
00:24:25,669 --> 00:24:23,600
researchers many people have had

686
00:24:27,669 --> 00:24:25,679
experiences to talk about this all week

687
00:24:29,909 --> 00:24:27,679
long a lot of it's on youtube and it was

688
00:24:31,510 --> 00:24:29,919
an incredible uh event i have to say i

689
00:24:32,870 --> 00:24:31,520
was proud to participate i still watch

690
00:24:36,310 --> 00:24:32,880
it all the time

691
00:24:39,590 --> 00:24:36,320
i do i go back in and i'm stunned at the

692
00:24:41,269 --> 00:24:39,600
testimony and yourself too is included

693
00:24:44,070 --> 00:24:41,279
thanks and um

694
00:24:46,070 --> 00:24:44,080
so my goal going in actually uh

695
00:24:47,830 --> 00:24:46,080
you know with steven bassett if you know

696
00:24:50,870 --> 00:24:47,840
him at all uh every time i talk to

697
00:24:51,909 --> 00:24:50,880
stephen this is how it starts off

698
00:24:54,070 --> 00:24:51,919
richard

699
00:24:55,430 --> 00:24:54,080
i really need you to and then fill in

700
00:24:57,110 --> 00:24:55,440
the blanket that's that's every single

701
00:24:59,510 --> 00:24:57,120
conversation i was even that's how it

702
00:25:00,549 --> 00:24:59,520
starts so uh with this one it was

703
00:25:02,549 --> 00:25:00,559
richard

704
00:25:05,110 --> 00:25:02,559
i'm going to need you to do a few extra

705
00:25:07,269 --> 00:25:05,120
uh presentations because you know

706
00:25:09,909 --> 00:25:07,279
all of these openings so i did six

707
00:25:11,990 --> 00:25:09,919
and my my plan was

708
00:25:12,789 --> 00:25:12,000
i would i did the first testimony of the

709
00:25:15,269 --> 00:25:12,799
week

710
00:25:17,110 --> 00:25:15,279
and then i did nearly the last

711
00:25:18,549 --> 00:25:17,120
and my goal independent of any of the

712
00:25:20,070 --> 00:25:18,559
other presenters was i was going to walk

713
00:25:21,830 --> 00:25:20,080
these members of congress through i was

714
00:25:23,750 --> 00:25:21,840
going to take them by the hand

715
00:25:26,149 --> 00:25:23,760
and i was going to take them

716
00:25:28,390 --> 00:25:26,159
step one and then step two and then step

717
00:25:30,710 --> 00:25:28,400
three and right on to step six

718
00:25:33,190 --> 00:25:30,720
so um the first lecture the first

719
00:25:35,029 --> 00:25:33,200
testimony that i gave was basically a

720
00:25:37,350 --> 00:25:35,039
kind of a kindergarten first grade

721
00:25:39,430 --> 00:25:37,360
overview of why this topic matters from

722
00:25:41,350 --> 00:25:39,440
a national security point of view

723
00:25:42,630 --> 00:25:41,360
by the time we got to the final week in

724
00:25:44,310 --> 00:25:42,640
that video that someone said the

725
00:25:46,710 --> 00:25:44,320
greatest speech

726
00:25:48,710 --> 00:25:46,720
which i i will say though i wanted to be

727
00:25:51,590 --> 00:25:48,720
my best speech of the week

728
00:25:53,830 --> 00:25:51,600
and it was my analysis of uh i'm trying

729
00:25:55,430 --> 00:25:53,840
to remember what i said there i um it's

730
00:25:58,149 --> 00:25:55,440
been a little while since i've looked at

731
00:25:59,669 --> 00:25:58,159
it but an analysis of

732
00:26:01,269 --> 00:25:59,679
of the secrecy

733
00:26:02,950 --> 00:26:01,279
the inevitability of the end of that

734
00:26:04,230 --> 00:26:02,960
secrecy why it's going to be so

735
00:26:05,590 --> 00:26:04,240
difficult but why it's going to be so

736
00:26:07,510 --> 00:26:05,600
necessary

737
00:26:09,669 --> 00:26:07,520
and i do think that that had an impact

738
00:26:11,669 --> 00:26:09,679
on those members of congress and i think

739
00:26:13,830 --> 00:26:11,679
not that any of us were expecting that

740
00:26:15,909 --> 00:26:13,840
those hearings were going to

741
00:26:17,190 --> 00:26:15,919
get president obama to say okay you got

742
00:26:18,070 --> 00:26:17,200
us we're going to give up the secret

743
00:26:20,789 --> 00:26:18,080
exactly

744
00:26:22,390 --> 00:26:20,799
i think some there were some silly

745
00:26:23,830 --> 00:26:22,400
comments leading up to it where people

746
00:26:27,430 --> 00:26:23,840
were thinking oh you believe obama's

747
00:26:31,909 --> 00:26:30,789
but we have a larger uh larger game here

748
00:26:35,430 --> 00:26:31,919
and

749
00:26:36,710 --> 00:26:35,440
we're looking at posterity we're looking

750
00:26:37,990 --> 00:26:36,720
at

751
00:26:39,909 --> 00:26:38,000
younger people

752
00:26:41,190 --> 00:26:39,919
particularly those who are living on

753
00:26:42,630 --> 00:26:41,200
youtube and we're going to see this and

754
00:26:44,390 --> 00:26:42,640
they're going to see

755
00:26:45,990 --> 00:26:44,400
well-dressed intelligent sounding

756
00:26:47,909 --> 00:26:46,000
statements

757
00:26:49,190 --> 00:26:47,919
in the national press club to former

758
00:26:51,269 --> 00:26:49,200
members of congress talking about the

759
00:26:53,269 --> 00:26:51,279
gravity and seriousness of this

760
00:26:55,190 --> 00:26:53,279
and i think this is like uh one of those

761
00:26:57,029 --> 00:26:55,200
events where you you know the ripples

762
00:26:59,510 --> 00:26:57,039
will just continue to spread for a long

763
00:27:01,190 --> 00:26:59,520
time i think that the um the effects of

764
00:27:03,110 --> 00:27:01,200
the citizen hearings are going to be

765
00:27:04,710 --> 00:27:03,120
significant for a while there's a couple

766
00:27:07,269 --> 00:27:04,720
of different ways you can approach

767
00:27:08,710 --> 00:27:07,279
washington dc and

768
00:27:11,510 --> 00:27:08,720
you know is

769
00:27:14,549 --> 00:27:11,520
you know strong arming and and trying to

770
00:27:16,470 --> 00:27:14,559
force the issue is that

771
00:27:17,909 --> 00:27:16,480
do you expect washington to respond to

772
00:27:20,070 --> 00:27:17,919
that or do you

773
00:27:22,390 --> 00:27:20,080
try to do handholding and maybe ask for

774
00:27:23,590 --> 00:27:22,400
help well traditionally what you find is

775
00:27:25,190 --> 00:27:23,600
that people have thought let's go

776
00:27:27,430 --> 00:27:25,200
quietly let's go to the back channels

777
00:27:28,870 --> 00:27:27,440
talk to people um you know who are in

778
00:27:30,630 --> 00:27:28,880
charge of committees and so forth and

779
00:27:33,110 --> 00:27:30,640
make it happen that way

780
00:27:35,830 --> 00:27:33,120
that hasn't done squat right in terms of

781
00:27:36,950 --> 00:27:35,840
opening this up personally look i my

782
00:27:39,669 --> 00:27:36,960
opinion

783
00:27:40,630 --> 00:27:39,679
i think we're in an era right now where

784
00:27:43,909 --> 00:27:40,640
things

785
00:27:45,350 --> 00:27:43,919
have gotten really bad they have gotten

786
00:27:46,789 --> 00:27:45,360
really bad

787
00:27:48,950 --> 00:27:46,799
and um

788
00:27:50,870 --> 00:27:48,960
i'm of the opinion that in many ways

789
00:27:53,750 --> 00:27:50,880
this the political system that we have

790
00:27:56,070 --> 00:27:53,760
is just so irredeemably corrupt it's

791
00:27:57,269 --> 00:27:56,080
it's hopelessly corrupt

792
00:27:58,310 --> 00:27:57,279
there's one and only one thing that's

793
00:28:00,870 --> 00:27:58,320
going to change and it's going to have

794
00:28:03,190 --> 00:28:00,880
to be mass citizen action not just from

795
00:28:05,350 --> 00:28:03,200
ufo researchers we're talking about

796
00:28:07,750 --> 00:28:05,360
millions and millions of people

797
00:28:09,669 --> 00:28:07,760
um something that will be considered uh

798
00:28:11,430 --> 00:28:09,679
revolutionary like literally in a

799
00:28:12,549 --> 00:28:11,440
revolutionary sense by the powers that

800
00:28:14,149 --> 00:28:12,559
be

801
00:28:15,990 --> 00:28:14,159
and um i think that's the only way

802
00:28:16,870 --> 00:28:16,000
things are really going to change is by

803
00:28:21,590 --> 00:28:16,880
a

804
00:28:23,430 --> 00:28:21,600
people

805
00:28:25,190 --> 00:28:23,440
whether the ufo subject will get into

806
00:28:27,669 --> 00:28:25,200
that mix or not is a different issue i

807
00:28:29,269 --> 00:28:27,679
think at some point it's going to happen

808
00:28:30,389 --> 00:28:29,279
but really that's the only way genuine

809
00:28:32,070 --> 00:28:30,399
change i think is going to happen you

810
00:28:35,430 --> 00:28:32,080
have to fight for it one of the points

811
00:28:37,029 --> 00:28:35,440
that i i drive home on my show and i do

812
00:28:39,750 --> 00:28:37,039
this a lot but

813
00:28:41,830 --> 00:28:39,760
i think and i'm probably speaking for

814
00:28:42,789 --> 00:28:41,840
everybody here too as well

815
00:28:43,669 --> 00:28:42,799
uh

816
00:28:44,470 --> 00:28:43,679
that

817
00:28:48,149 --> 00:28:44,480
we

818
00:28:49,269 --> 00:28:48,159
as citizens are much more prepared than

819
00:28:53,909 --> 00:28:49,279
what

820
00:28:55,269 --> 00:28:53,919
thinks

821
00:28:57,029 --> 00:28:55,279
in that

822
00:29:00,070 --> 00:28:57,039
here we have hollywood you know we're

823
00:29:01,269 --> 00:29:00,080
here in studio city burbank and uh

824
00:29:04,310 --> 00:29:01,279
hollywood

825
00:29:05,669 --> 00:29:04,320
cranks out some type of extraterrestrial

826
00:29:08,950 --> 00:29:05,679
et

827
00:29:11,830 --> 00:29:08,960
uh ufo cowboys and aliens type movie

828
00:29:13,510 --> 00:29:11,840
every week and that's what we pay for

829
00:29:17,029 --> 00:29:13,520
that's what we you know

830
00:29:18,310 --> 00:29:17,039
it's not a shocking subject anymore to

831
00:29:21,190 --> 00:29:18,320
us i think

832
00:29:22,310 --> 00:29:21,200
i and and i i truly want your answer on

833
00:29:24,830 --> 00:29:22,320
this i've been wanting to ask this

834
00:29:28,710 --> 00:29:24,840
question for a long time to you but

835
00:29:31,430 --> 00:29:28,720
um if they don't disclose and admit i

836
00:29:35,190 --> 00:29:31,440
think that is actually worse

837
00:29:36,950 --> 00:29:35,200
the silence is is the lie

838
00:29:38,470 --> 00:29:36,960
yeah the reason that it's worse is

839
00:29:40,789 --> 00:29:38,480
because it means that our whole

840
00:29:42,149 --> 00:29:40,799
political system the system that we grew

841
00:29:43,510 --> 00:29:42,159
up thinking we were supposed to have one

842
00:29:45,110 --> 00:29:43,520
of an open kind of

843
00:29:47,190 --> 00:29:45,120
uh representative government it means

844
00:29:49,350 --> 00:29:47,200
that it's broken so that's a bad thing

845
00:29:52,470 --> 00:29:49,360
and and i mean that goes against the

846
00:29:54,149 --> 00:29:52,480
fiber probably every person in this room

847
00:29:56,430 --> 00:29:54,159
and everyone listening this is we

848
00:29:58,470 --> 00:29:56,440
believe we all believe in true

849
00:29:59,830 --> 00:29:58,480
representative government so when the

850
00:30:01,350 --> 00:29:59,840
government is not responding to

851
00:30:03,190 --> 00:30:01,360
something that's so obvious so in your

852
00:30:04,710 --> 00:30:03,200
face that it's here that means that that

853
00:30:06,149 --> 00:30:04,720
system's broken so that's upsetting

854
00:30:08,389 --> 00:30:06,159
that's wrong

855
00:30:11,029 --> 00:30:08,399
in terms of why the secret

856
00:30:13,029 --> 00:30:11,039
is here like what you were just saying

857
00:30:14,870 --> 00:30:13,039
people are more ready than than the

858
00:30:16,870 --> 00:30:14,880
powers that be think

859
00:30:18,149 --> 00:30:16,880
we can discuss it i i sometimes think

860
00:30:19,430 --> 00:30:18,159
that you're right and sometimes i don't

861
00:30:20,630 --> 00:30:19,440
agree with that

862
00:30:22,149 --> 00:30:20,640
but

863
00:30:23,590 --> 00:30:22,159
i i think that the reason for the

864
00:30:25,830 --> 00:30:23,600
secrecy

865
00:30:26,950 --> 00:30:25,840
is uh is far beyond that so it's not

866
00:30:29,110 --> 00:30:26,960
like the government's protecting us

867
00:30:30,710 --> 00:30:29,120
because i think we can't handle it right

868
00:30:32,710 --> 00:30:30,720
i don't think i really care that's not

869
00:30:34,870 --> 00:30:32,720
the reason the reason that the secret is

870
00:30:36,549 --> 00:30:34,880
there is because this is a subject that

871
00:30:38,149 --> 00:30:36,559
will turn our whole society and our

872
00:30:39,510 --> 00:30:38,159
infrastructure upside down so for

873
00:30:41,190 --> 00:30:39,520
example

874
00:30:43,350 --> 00:30:41,200
i like to say let's rewind the clock go

875
00:30:44,950 --> 00:30:43,360
back to 1947. and you're the president

876
00:30:46,630 --> 00:30:44,960
of the united states and i'm and i've

877
00:30:48,470 --> 00:30:46,640
just come up to you i'm your top general

878
00:30:50,950 --> 00:30:48,480
maybe your top scientist and i've said

879
00:30:52,470 --> 00:30:50,960
sir we have recovered technology

880
00:30:53,830 --> 00:30:52,480
that's not that doesn't appear to be

881
00:30:55,909 --> 00:30:53,840
from this civilization and that's a

882
00:30:56,710 --> 00:30:55,919
heavy-duty thing to take okay what'd you

883
00:30:57,590 --> 00:30:56,720
find

884
00:30:59,830 --> 00:30:57,600
so

885
00:31:01,830 --> 00:30:59,840
you have a choice you you might think

886
00:31:03,909 --> 00:31:01,840
let's should we tell the world this is

887
00:31:05,909 --> 00:31:03,919
important and that might be one of your

888
00:31:08,230 --> 00:31:05,919
instincts but we would say your advisor

889
00:31:09,110 --> 00:31:08,240
to say uh not a good idea because if you

890
00:31:11,029 --> 00:31:09,120
tell the world you've got this

891
00:31:12,870 --> 00:31:11,039
technology it's going to be very hard

892
00:31:14,950 --> 00:31:12,880
not to share it and you may not want to

893
00:31:16,630 --> 00:31:14,960
share it you've got this enemy that

894
00:31:18,789 --> 00:31:16,640
you've you know created in your mind or

895
00:31:20,230 --> 00:31:18,799
in reality the russians the soviets

896
00:31:21,909 --> 00:31:20,240
they were trying actively to get the

897
00:31:23,909 --> 00:31:21,919
atomic bomb and america didn't want to

898
00:31:25,750 --> 00:31:23,919
share that technology right you're not

899
00:31:27,909 --> 00:31:25,760
going to want to share something like et

900
00:31:29,430 --> 00:31:27,919
technology or whatever this is so you

901
00:31:31,110 --> 00:31:29,440
you have to have the secrecy in your

902
00:31:32,870 --> 00:31:31,120
mind if you're the president i think

903
00:31:35,029 --> 00:31:32,880
what you would do is you'd say let's get

904
00:31:37,350 --> 00:31:35,039
a handle on this let's create our team

905
00:31:39,350 --> 00:31:37,360
let's find out who's got what job and

906
00:31:41,590 --> 00:31:39,360
one of those jobs will be to study this

907
00:31:43,750 --> 00:31:41,600
technology find out what we can do

908
00:31:45,669 --> 00:31:43,760
he may not have or the decision makers

909
00:31:47,590 --> 00:31:45,679
may not have planned to do this secret

910
00:31:50,630 --> 00:31:47,600
forever but secrets have a way of

911
00:31:52,630 --> 00:31:50,640
containing continuing on and on and

912
00:31:54,470 --> 00:31:52,640
especially if they become profitable

913
00:31:56,470 --> 00:31:54,480
which this secret has done

914
00:31:59,269 --> 00:31:56,480
the ufo phenomenon

915
00:32:00,630 --> 00:31:59,279
has resulted in in partly in the

916
00:32:02,710 --> 00:32:00,640
creation of what we would call our black

917
00:32:04,070 --> 00:32:02,720
budget culture a lot of students need to

918
00:32:05,909 --> 00:32:04,080
understand

919
00:32:08,630 --> 00:32:05,919
we have a runaway black budget system

920
00:32:11,190 --> 00:32:08,640
but the ufo subject is part of that

921
00:32:13,590 --> 00:32:11,200
but what happens with the technology

922
00:32:16,310 --> 00:32:13,600
is um it it has to be kept secret from

923
00:32:18,070 --> 00:32:16,320
their point of view because

924
00:32:19,750 --> 00:32:18,080
i mean for one reason right away

925
00:32:22,470 --> 00:32:19,760
implicit in the

926
00:32:23,909 --> 00:32:22,480
solution to the science of ufos is the

927
00:32:25,350 --> 00:32:23,919
obvious fact that these things are not

928
00:32:26,710 --> 00:32:25,360
using gasoline

929
00:32:28,789 --> 00:32:26,720
to get around

930
00:32:30,389 --> 00:32:28,799
whatever they're doing whether it's some

931
00:32:32,950 --> 00:32:30,399
form of fusion whether it's something

932
00:32:34,789 --> 00:32:32,960
better zero point energy or whatever it

933
00:32:36,389 --> 00:32:34,799
almost doesn't matter

934
00:32:39,029 --> 00:32:36,399
the end the fact is that it would

935
00:32:40,710 --> 00:32:39,039
replace petroleum as the world's primary

936
00:32:44,710 --> 00:32:40,720
source of uh

937
00:32:46,070 --> 00:32:44,720
of energy and in the in 1947 and today

938
00:32:48,549 --> 00:32:46,080
that's

939
00:32:49,990 --> 00:32:48,559
probably it hasn't changed right right

940
00:32:51,269 --> 00:32:50,000
and um and those are the guys who run

941
00:32:53,269 --> 00:32:51,279
the show anyway they've run american

942
00:32:55,029 --> 00:32:53,279
foreign policy since forever

943
00:32:56,310 --> 00:32:55,039
through the council on foreign relations

944
00:32:58,389 --> 00:32:56,320
so no they're not going to let that

945
00:33:00,070 --> 00:32:58,399
happen just and and then the other thing

946
00:33:01,590 --> 00:33:00,080
is when you start

947
00:33:03,509 --> 00:33:01,600
if you're one of the people at the top

948
00:33:04,950 --> 00:33:03,519
and you start allowing this massive

949
00:33:06,789 --> 00:33:04,960
change

950
00:33:08,310 --> 00:33:06,799
you are very likely to lose control over

951
00:33:10,230 --> 00:33:08,320
where that change goes how far how much

952
00:33:11,750 --> 00:33:10,240
freedom do you want people to have maybe

953
00:33:13,990 --> 00:33:11,760
not that much in their opinion well

954
00:33:16,470 --> 00:33:14,000
that's a good point and

955
00:33:18,950 --> 00:33:16,480
do you think

956
00:33:21,430 --> 00:33:18,960
if they would have uh had a little a

957
00:33:23,509 --> 00:33:21,440
little more vision back then about the

958
00:33:26,470 --> 00:33:23,519
how much petroleum we actually had

959
00:33:28,710 --> 00:33:26,480
because back then oil was limitless was

960
00:33:31,669 --> 00:33:28,720
limitless is up to your neck everywhere

961
00:33:34,149 --> 00:33:31,679
and cheap by the way very very cheap

962
00:33:36,470 --> 00:33:34,159
but here we are 50 years later we know

963
00:33:38,549 --> 00:33:36,480
now it's not going to last forever do

964
00:33:40,710 --> 00:33:38,559
you think that they

965
00:33:41,990 --> 00:33:40,720
handled it completely wrong that maybe

966
00:33:44,310 --> 00:33:42,000
they should have developed that

967
00:33:46,470 --> 00:33:44,320
technology and maybe

968
00:33:48,149 --> 00:33:46,480
gotten it out there and not worried

969
00:33:49,830 --> 00:33:48,159
about money because that's what it all

970
00:33:52,230 --> 00:33:49,840
you know that that was what the

971
00:33:53,669 --> 00:33:52,240
decisions were based on then because the

972
00:33:55,830 --> 00:33:53,679
profits were endless and they didn't

973
00:33:56,950 --> 00:33:55,840
want to stop them right well probably if

974
00:33:58,870 --> 00:33:56,960
they were thinking in the public

975
00:34:00,149 --> 00:33:58,880
interest i i think that's probably what

976
00:34:01,669 --> 00:34:00,159
they would have done

977
00:34:02,549 --> 00:34:01,679
but they did have other issues to worry

978
00:34:05,990 --> 00:34:02,559
about

979
00:34:08,470 --> 00:34:06,000
again let's say it's 1947 um how do you

980
00:34:10,069 --> 00:34:08,480
really tell the world about this

981
00:34:12,310 --> 00:34:10,079
if you yourself don't have all the

982
00:34:13,430 --> 00:34:12,320
answers do you know if these entities

983
00:34:14,470 --> 00:34:13,440
are hostile do you know if they're

984
00:34:16,550 --> 00:34:14,480
friendly

985
00:34:18,950 --> 00:34:16,560
if you if you put yourself out there and

986
00:34:20,790 --> 00:34:18,960
you start talking about this you as the

987
00:34:22,950 --> 00:34:20,800
president are going to have a lot of

988
00:34:25,669 --> 00:34:22,960
people who are going to want answers and

989
00:34:27,829 --> 00:34:25,679
you may not have good answers it's a

990
00:34:29,669 --> 00:34:27,839
nightmare from a political point of view

991
00:34:31,750 --> 00:34:29,679
absolute nightmare

992
00:34:33,510 --> 00:34:31,760
so i think that uh

993
00:34:35,109 --> 00:34:33,520
again that's another incentive for

994
00:34:38,310 --> 00:34:35,119
saying we need to

995
00:34:39,990 --> 00:34:38,320
think about this let's take it slow

996
00:34:42,069 --> 00:34:40,000
and we'll revisit it you know with a

997
00:34:43,270 --> 00:34:42,079
certain period of time i had a gentleman

998
00:34:45,349 --> 00:34:43,280
that i had a

999
00:34:46,629 --> 00:34:45,359
a very detailed discussion with he was a

1000
00:34:48,710 --> 00:34:46,639
high level

1001
00:34:50,389 --> 00:34:48,720
knowing uh at least one possibly a

1002
00:34:52,550 --> 00:34:50,399
couple of u.s presidents and he's a

1003
00:34:55,109 --> 00:34:52,560
scientist and he

1004
00:34:56,790 --> 00:34:55,119
i like to say he's in with the in-crowd

1005
00:34:58,710 --> 00:34:56,800
and one thing that he said to me is that

1006
00:35:01,270 --> 00:34:58,720
it was his knowledge that every few

1007
00:35:03,589 --> 00:35:01,280
years every five or so years this

1008
00:35:06,069 --> 00:35:03,599
subject comes up in discussion at high

1009
00:35:08,790 --> 00:35:06,079
levels in terms of

1010
00:35:11,030 --> 00:35:08,800
do we just do we disclose

1011
00:35:12,710 --> 00:35:11,040
so it is a subject that comes up and

1012
00:35:14,230 --> 00:35:12,720
and he said to me he was on a

1013
00:35:16,470 --> 00:35:14,240
subcommittee

1014
00:35:17,910 --> 00:35:16,480
to study one factor of the problems of

1015
00:35:19,990 --> 00:35:17,920
disclosure even though he was a

1016
00:35:22,790 --> 00:35:20,000
scientist he studied uh he was on the

1017
00:35:24,950 --> 00:35:22,800
legal team he said where they studied

1018
00:35:26,310 --> 00:35:24,960
legal ramifications of disclosing the

1019
00:35:28,390 --> 00:35:26,320
reality of ufos and one thing they

1020
00:35:30,550 --> 00:35:28,400
realized is that lawsuits would go

1021
00:35:32,470 --> 00:35:30,560
would be really significant not just uh

1022
00:35:35,030 --> 00:35:32,480
class-action citizens right right but

1023
00:35:37,030 --> 00:35:35,040
defense contractor suits if i have a

1024
00:35:38,230 --> 00:35:37,040
defense company and i have access to

1025
00:35:40,550 --> 00:35:38,240
this technology you're one of my

1026
00:35:42,550 --> 00:35:40,560
competitors and you don't right you you

1027
00:35:45,430 --> 00:35:42,560
have legal grievance there

1028
00:35:47,510 --> 00:35:45,440
simple mundane prosaic issues that most

1029
00:35:49,270 --> 00:35:47,520
of us don't really think about

1030
00:35:52,150 --> 00:35:49,280
but um

1031
00:35:54,470 --> 00:35:52,160
all of these factor into the reasons

1032
00:35:55,349 --> 00:35:54,480
for continuing the secret

1033
00:35:56,950 --> 00:35:55,359
um

1034
00:35:59,109 --> 00:35:56,960
i almost lost my train of thought here

1035
00:36:01,190 --> 00:35:59,119
we were talking about the origins of the

1036
00:36:04,550 --> 00:36:01,200
secrecy i believe and we were talking

1037
00:36:06,310 --> 00:36:04,560
about oil oil oil certainly is a big one

1038
00:36:07,910 --> 00:36:06,320
um

1039
00:36:10,150 --> 00:36:07,920
and

1040
00:36:12,069 --> 00:36:10,160
i think that the exegesis of the cold

1041
00:36:13,270 --> 00:36:12,079
war overruled everything in the minds of

1042
00:36:15,190 --> 00:36:13,280
these guys

1043
00:36:16,630 --> 00:36:15,200
they wanted to use this technology as a

1044
00:36:18,230 --> 00:36:16,640
as a chip

1045
00:36:19,750 --> 00:36:18,240
to give as much of an advantage as they

1046
00:36:20,790 --> 00:36:19,760
could

1047
00:36:21,750 --> 00:36:20,800
i think

1048
00:36:29,270 --> 00:36:21,760
that

1049
00:36:31,510 --> 00:36:29,280
clandestinely

1050
00:36:35,109 --> 00:36:31,520
segued into breakthroughs whether it's

1051
00:36:38,790 --> 00:36:35,119
improved integrated circuits or even um

1052
00:36:40,470 --> 00:36:38,800
you know the integrated circuit um

1053
00:36:42,710 --> 00:36:40,480
yeah and we're gonna we're we're gonna

1054
00:36:43,829 --> 00:36:42,720
touch upon that in in just a second and

1055
00:36:46,790 --> 00:36:43,839
by the way i worked for bell

1056
00:36:49,349 --> 00:36:46,800
laboratories myself for three years

1057
00:36:51,829 --> 00:36:49,359
and the pride that they have

1058
00:36:53,829 --> 00:36:51,839
with that there

1059
00:36:55,589 --> 00:36:53,839
you know and the more that i read and

1060
00:36:57,270 --> 00:36:55,599
know and learn

1061
00:36:59,589 --> 00:36:57,280
i was there man i worked for bell labs

1062
00:37:01,910 --> 00:36:59,599
for three years and i really scratch my

1063
00:37:03,829 --> 00:37:01,920
head now and i just i don't know there's

1064
00:37:05,750 --> 00:37:03,839
a side to me that says let's hope it's

1065
00:37:07,109 --> 00:37:05,760
not true then there's another side

1066
00:37:09,030 --> 00:37:07,119
you know

1067
00:37:10,790 --> 00:37:09,040
now i'm gonna indulge myself and

1068
00:37:12,710 --> 00:37:10,800
everybody here with a couple of uh

1069
00:37:15,109 --> 00:37:12,720
personal questions before we start to

1070
00:37:17,910 --> 00:37:15,119
dive into the book a little bit

1071
00:37:19,349 --> 00:37:17,920
does richard dolan know anything that we

1072
00:37:20,790 --> 00:37:19,359
don't

1073
00:37:22,390 --> 00:37:20,800
do you have something you're holding

1074
00:37:24,630 --> 00:37:22,400
back

1075
00:37:27,829 --> 00:37:25,430
uh

1076
00:37:30,790 --> 00:37:27,839
i've shared everything that i think is

1077
00:37:32,550 --> 00:37:30,800
actually significant don't be political

1078
00:37:34,550 --> 00:37:32,560
don't i'm trying to think i'm trying to

1079
00:37:36,870 --> 00:37:34,560
think

1080
00:37:40,790 --> 00:37:36,880
what what i do get are

1081
00:37:43,190 --> 00:37:40,800
private stories on a very regular basis

1082
00:37:44,630 --> 00:37:43,200
from uh people who are

1083
00:37:46,870 --> 00:37:44,640
often troubled by what they've gone

1084
00:37:48,470 --> 00:37:46,880
through what they've experienced

1085
00:37:50,230 --> 00:37:48,480
and many of them have shared some of

1086
00:37:52,870 --> 00:37:50,240
their stories with me and not all of

1087
00:37:55,430 --> 00:37:52,880
them i have i have um

1088
00:37:57,030 --> 00:37:55,440
necessarily shared explicitly but

1089
00:37:58,870 --> 00:37:57,040
i i can say that the ones that have

1090
00:38:01,190 --> 00:37:58,880
struck me the most

1091
00:38:02,150 --> 00:38:01,200
and in fact i did not include i did not

1092
00:38:03,589 --> 00:38:02,160
include

1093
00:38:06,630 --> 00:38:03,599
just because i didn't think i needed to

1094
00:38:08,390 --> 00:38:06,640
but maybe i should have

1095
00:38:09,829 --> 00:38:08,400
um well i talked i talked around this

1096
00:38:11,030 --> 00:38:09,839
sort of thing which is the traumatic

1097
00:38:12,630 --> 00:38:11,040
effect that people have when they have

1098
00:38:14,069 --> 00:38:12,640
these encounters

1099
00:38:15,349 --> 00:38:14,079
um that's become something very

1100
00:38:16,950 --> 00:38:15,359
important to me

1101
00:38:20,069 --> 00:38:16,960
not something i'm holding back but a

1102
00:38:21,990 --> 00:38:20,079
couple of stories i for example

1103
00:38:23,750 --> 00:38:22,000
one of my witnesses one of my people i

1104
00:38:26,630 --> 00:38:23,760
guess is a science writer a lady in her

1105
00:38:28,710 --> 00:38:26,640
60s very intelligent very very smart a

1106
00:38:31,510 --> 00:38:28,720
worldly individual

1107
00:38:33,349 --> 00:38:31,520
has published for major magazines over

1108
00:38:35,670 --> 00:38:33,359
the years

1109
00:38:37,510 --> 00:38:35,680
and uh came to me a couple of years ago

1110
00:38:38,710 --> 00:38:37,520
out of the blue said look i haven't

1111
00:38:42,069 --> 00:38:38,720
talked to anyone about this i've had

1112
00:38:43,109 --> 00:38:42,079
this sitting in my mind for 40 years

1113
00:38:44,550 --> 00:38:43,119
and i'm just going to tell you because i

1114
00:38:45,990 --> 00:38:44,560
respect what you do

1115
00:38:47,750 --> 00:38:46,000
so i did a long series of interviews

1116
00:38:49,510 --> 00:38:47,760
with interviews with her

1117
00:38:51,190 --> 00:38:49,520
when we first started was on the phone i

1118
00:38:52,870 --> 00:38:51,200
was recording it

1119
00:38:54,710 --> 00:38:52,880
she

1120
00:38:56,470 --> 00:38:54,720
within five minutes

1121
00:39:00,630 --> 00:38:56,480
of recounting

1122
00:39:03,190 --> 00:39:00,640
her experience from the late 1960s

1123
00:39:05,030 --> 00:39:03,200
began having her heart palpitate

1124
00:39:07,829 --> 00:39:05,040
and i could hear her

1125
00:39:09,510 --> 00:39:07,839
panting on the other side of the phone

1126
00:39:11,270 --> 00:39:09,520
her heart was racing she was getting

1127
00:39:13,510 --> 00:39:11,280
upset she was visibly upset but not

1128
00:39:16,150 --> 00:39:13,520
visibly audibly upset

1129
00:39:17,910 --> 00:39:16,160
and she said i have to hang up the phone

1130
00:39:19,589 --> 00:39:17,920
she hung up 10 minutes later she called

1131
00:39:21,270 --> 00:39:19,599
me back she said i'm sorry

1132
00:39:23,670 --> 00:39:21,280
let's do it again

1133
00:39:25,670 --> 00:39:23,680
and i think about for the next 10

1134
00:39:28,470 --> 00:39:25,680
minutes i had to

1135
00:39:29,990 --> 00:39:28,480
tell her slow down calm down calm down

1136
00:39:31,349 --> 00:39:30,000
as she recounted what did she recount

1137
00:39:32,950 --> 00:39:31,359
she was with a boyfriend they were

1138
00:39:35,030 --> 00:39:32,960
driving on a highway as they were

1139
00:39:37,349 --> 00:39:35,040
approaching the exit they turned off she

1140
00:39:38,550 --> 00:39:37,359
said this object descended that was when

1141
00:39:41,270 --> 00:39:38,560
she had her first

1142
00:39:42,630 --> 00:39:41,280
moment of panic on the phone

1143
00:39:44,310 --> 00:39:42,640
and um

1144
00:39:46,310 --> 00:39:44,320
they had missing time

1145
00:39:48,630 --> 00:39:46,320
she had a

1146
00:39:52,150 --> 00:39:48,640
a lifetime

1147
00:39:54,150 --> 00:39:52,160
or at least 20 years of very bizarre

1148
00:39:55,270 --> 00:39:54,160
experiences

1149
00:39:57,349 --> 00:39:55,280
not just

1150
00:39:58,950 --> 00:39:57,359
apparent abduction experiences but men

1151
00:40:00,710 --> 00:39:58,960
in black encounters

1152
00:40:02,710 --> 00:40:00,720
people would come to her door knowing

1153
00:40:06,630 --> 00:40:02,720
her in ways that no one's supposed to

1154
00:40:07,990 --> 00:40:06,640
know you right a sense of familiarity

1155
00:40:11,510 --> 00:40:08,000
and um

1156
00:40:13,430 --> 00:40:11,520
all this time she's someone who

1157
00:40:16,870 --> 00:40:13,440
was extremely intelligent and living

1158
00:40:18,710 --> 00:40:16,880
with this in total isolation

1159
00:40:20,550 --> 00:40:18,720
but another gentleman that else well i'm

1160
00:40:23,030 --> 00:40:20,560
going to jump in real quick

1161
00:40:24,630 --> 00:40:23,040
were you the first person that she sat

1162
00:40:26,870 --> 00:40:24,640
down and talked to about it so she was

1163
00:40:28,310 --> 00:40:26,880
holding it in this entire time 40 years

1164
00:40:30,710 --> 00:40:28,320
all this trauma is coming out all at

1165
00:40:31,910 --> 00:40:30,720
once and did you send her a therapist

1166
00:40:33,750 --> 00:40:31,920
bill

1167
00:40:35,430 --> 00:40:33,760
what because well if you know what i'm

1168
00:40:37,589 --> 00:40:35,440
saying and i'm not i'm being not being

1169
00:40:40,230 --> 00:40:37,599
tongue-in-cheek but they need

1170
00:40:42,470 --> 00:40:40,240
to speak to somebody and you were in the

1171
00:40:44,069 --> 00:40:42,480
way and you were that guy and and and

1172
00:40:45,990 --> 00:40:44,079
that's what you felt

1173
00:40:47,190 --> 00:40:46,000
now that's happened to me more and more

1174
00:40:49,349 --> 00:40:47,200
um

1175
00:40:50,310 --> 00:40:49,359
i don't i don't do hypnotic regression i

1176
00:40:52,550 --> 00:40:50,320
don't

1177
00:40:54,390 --> 00:40:52,560
try to pretend to uh unpack memories

1178
00:40:56,309 --> 00:40:54,400
that are they're hidden that way i'm not

1179
00:40:58,790 --> 00:40:56,319
saying that there aren't such memories i

1180
00:41:00,309 --> 00:40:58,800
just don't do that but what i i can do

1181
00:41:01,589 --> 00:41:00,319
pretty well at this point is listen

1182
00:41:03,190 --> 00:41:01,599
carefully and hopefully ask some good

1183
00:41:06,950 --> 00:41:03,200
questions and help people to remember

1184
00:41:09,030 --> 00:41:06,960
things but i can do that um

1185
00:41:10,790 --> 00:41:09,040
yeah i mean in telling these stories

1186
00:41:12,870 --> 00:41:10,800
this is one of the another important

1187
00:41:14,950 --> 00:41:12,880
fact of the ufo subject which is that

1188
00:41:16,790 --> 00:41:14,960
it's so widespread it affects people at

1189
00:41:19,270 --> 00:41:16,800
a very deep level

1190
00:41:20,550 --> 00:41:19,280
and think about how wrong it is in our

1191
00:41:22,870 --> 00:41:20,560
society

1192
00:41:25,109 --> 00:41:22,880
that this phenomenon exists as it does

1193
00:41:27,510 --> 00:41:25,119
and we are dealing with it basically for

1194
00:41:29,670 --> 00:41:27,520
the most part in an atomized isolated

1195
00:41:31,190 --> 00:41:29,680
way i mean there are groups like where

1196
00:41:33,589 --> 00:41:31,200
we're sitting here tonight where there

1197
00:41:35,349 --> 00:41:33,599
are people who who are able to talk to

1198
00:41:36,470 --> 00:41:35,359
each other but that's

1199
00:41:38,150 --> 00:41:36,480
you know compared with that there's

1200
00:41:39,670 --> 00:41:38,160
millions and billions of other people

1201
00:41:41,510 --> 00:41:39,680
out there and they're have these

1202
00:41:42,309 --> 00:41:41,520
encounters they live in a world where

1203
00:41:46,470 --> 00:41:42,319
their

1204
00:41:47,829 --> 00:41:46,480
and they feel like idiots if they talk

1205
00:41:49,030 --> 00:41:47,839
about it because people will make fun of

1206
00:41:50,150 --> 00:41:49,040
them or they don't have the stomach to

1207
00:41:51,990 --> 00:41:50,160
deal with it

1208
00:41:54,550 --> 00:41:52,000
so there's a real problem and it creates

1209
00:41:55,910 --> 00:41:54,560
stress it creates trauma in the mind

1210
00:41:57,349 --> 00:41:55,920
and that's not a good thing it's an

1211
00:41:59,109 --> 00:41:57,359
unhealthy thing

1212
00:42:01,270 --> 00:41:59,119
i've said this uh

1213
00:42:03,109 --> 00:42:01,280
before on the air but i'll say it now

1214
00:42:05,270 --> 00:42:03,119
because again

1215
00:42:07,430 --> 00:42:05,280
fear of repeating myself but

1216
00:42:09,430 --> 00:42:07,440
uh i've i've seen three things in my

1217
00:42:10,790 --> 00:42:09,440
life three things that

1218
00:42:11,910 --> 00:42:10,800
you know can't explain one i

1219
00:42:12,710 --> 00:42:11,920
photographed

1220
00:42:14,870 --> 00:42:12,720
but

1221
00:42:17,190 --> 00:42:14,880
in all three instances and especially

1222
00:42:18,790 --> 00:42:17,200
the first one i didn't talk to anybody

1223
00:42:20,390 --> 00:42:18,800
for probably 10 years

1224
00:42:22,790 --> 00:42:20,400
i didn't tell anybody i didn't want

1225
00:42:23,910 --> 00:42:22,800
anybody to look at me

1226
00:42:25,670 --> 00:42:23,920
strange

1227
00:42:28,069 --> 00:42:25,680
and one of the first people i talked to

1228
00:42:30,630 --> 00:42:28,079
about it was steve marillo when he was

1229
00:42:33,030 --> 00:42:30,640
on the show and between and this was

1230
00:42:35,270 --> 00:42:33,040
1995. now we're talking almost 20 years

1231
00:42:37,990 --> 00:42:35,280
ago and in 20 years i've probably

1232
00:42:40,870 --> 00:42:38,000
discussed it with five people how many

1233
00:42:44,069 --> 00:42:40,880
people here in the same situation right

1234
00:42:46,150 --> 00:42:44,079
and uh it's it's it's something that you

1235
00:42:49,030 --> 00:42:46,160
have to encourage and also

1236
00:42:50,710 --> 00:42:49,040
there is a certain trauma i had a travis

1237
00:42:51,750 --> 00:42:50,720
walton on the show a couple a couple of

1238
00:42:54,230 --> 00:42:51,760
months ago

1239
00:42:56,870 --> 00:42:54,240
and the one thing that travis said to me

1240
00:43:00,309 --> 00:42:56,880
uh before we did the interview

1241
00:43:01,349 --> 00:43:00,319
was that he can't take the trauma

1242
00:43:04,790 --> 00:43:01,359
anymore

1243
00:43:07,349 --> 00:43:04,800
he cannot discuss because he just lives

1244
00:43:09,829 --> 00:43:07,359
it again and it was a scary experience

1245
00:43:11,109 --> 00:43:09,839
for him and he just gets traumatized

1246
00:43:14,390 --> 00:43:11,119
talking about it

1247
00:43:15,190 --> 00:43:14,400
so for you know and i agreed with travis

1248
00:43:16,870 --> 00:43:15,200
uh

1249
00:43:17,910 --> 00:43:16,880
that we wouldn't discuss that on the

1250
00:43:20,710 --> 00:43:17,920
show

1251
00:43:22,950 --> 00:43:20,720
we would talk about whatever and and

1252
00:43:24,870 --> 00:43:22,960
he was so thankful

1253
00:43:26,550 --> 00:43:24,880
that we didn't have to discuss the

1254
00:43:29,190 --> 00:43:26,560
traumatic stuff because he said his

1255
00:43:31,430 --> 00:43:29,200
heart gets racing and he just can't deal

1256
00:43:33,270 --> 00:43:31,440
with it i had a conversation with travis

1257
00:43:35,829 --> 00:43:33,280
walton about exactly that and one thing

1258
00:43:38,550 --> 00:43:35,839
he added is that on one occasion he

1259
00:43:40,870 --> 00:43:38,560
tried hypnotic regression to unpack what

1260
00:43:42,470 --> 00:43:40,880
what he had yeah he mentioned that right

1261
00:43:44,870 --> 00:43:42,480
and they had to stop that regression

1262
00:43:46,550 --> 00:43:44,880
because the uh there was a fear that he

1263
00:43:49,349 --> 00:43:46,560
literally didn't have a heart attack he

1264
00:43:52,230 --> 00:43:49,359
got so uh deeply upset about the

1265
00:43:54,309 --> 00:43:52,240
experience he sent me an email the the

1266
00:43:56,550 --> 00:43:54,319
next day after the show and he said

1267
00:43:58,790 --> 00:43:56,560
jimmy i've told that story for 38 years

1268
00:44:00,630 --> 00:43:58,800
i've done 38 years of interviews that's

1269
00:44:02,630 --> 00:44:00,640
the first time i didn't freak out and

1270
00:44:05,270 --> 00:44:02,640
thank you you know because i didn't you

1271
00:44:06,710 --> 00:44:05,280
know you i know the sensationalism and

1272
00:44:08,309 --> 00:44:06,720
and what the movie

1273
00:44:10,069 --> 00:44:08,319
you know shows if you want to see the

1274
00:44:13,829 --> 00:44:10,079
trauma just go see the movie if you want

1275
00:44:17,109 --> 00:44:13,839
the terror but uh for him everybody just

1276
00:44:19,510 --> 00:44:17,119
wants that minute by minute replay

1277
00:44:21,270 --> 00:44:19,520
and it just it freaks him out you asked

1278
00:44:23,190 --> 00:44:21,280
uh am i holding anything back there's

1279
00:44:25,750 --> 00:44:23,200
one other one other account that i think

1280
00:44:27,589 --> 00:44:25,760
is relevant here is useful to explain

1281
00:44:29,270 --> 00:44:27,599
and it's similar to the woman that i

1282
00:44:31,589 --> 00:44:29,280
described earlier but this was a truck

1283
00:44:33,430 --> 00:44:31,599
driver a guy in his 50s

1284
00:44:34,790 --> 00:44:33,440
told me about him uh two hours of

1285
00:44:36,069 --> 00:44:34,800
missing time that he had he'd been he

1286
00:44:41,190 --> 00:44:36,079
was doing night fishing with three

1287
00:44:43,829 --> 00:44:41,200
friends in ohio back in uh 1980s

1288
00:44:46,230 --> 00:44:43,839
uh bright object descends over their

1289
00:44:47,990 --> 00:44:46,240
boat and that was the last thing

1290
00:44:50,390 --> 00:44:48,000
he remembered the next thing he

1291
00:44:53,589 --> 00:44:50,400
remembered is that the four of them were

1292
00:44:55,829 --> 00:44:53,599
on the shore not in their boat

1293
00:44:57,430 --> 00:44:55,839
on the shore looking up at this low

1294
00:45:00,069 --> 00:44:57,440
object directly above them and they were

1295
00:45:01,670 --> 00:45:00,079
all screaming hysterically they're

1296
00:45:04,550 --> 00:45:01,680
coming to get us

1297
00:45:06,309 --> 00:45:04,560
he said the object took off and and left

1298
00:45:07,190 --> 00:45:06,319
when they checked their time it was two

1299
00:45:08,870 --> 00:45:07,200
hours

1300
00:45:10,470 --> 00:45:08,880
later than it should have been

1301
00:45:11,990 --> 00:45:10,480
and and um

1302
00:45:13,589 --> 00:45:12,000
as they were getting into the van to go

1303
00:45:17,349 --> 00:45:13,599
home

1304
00:45:19,510 --> 00:45:17,359
as he said to his friends

1305
00:45:22,069 --> 00:45:19,520
we are not supposed to talk about this

1306
00:45:24,470 --> 00:45:22,079
not ever and if any of you ever discuss

1307
00:45:26,790 --> 00:45:24,480
this i'll call you all a liar and i'll

1308
00:45:28,470 --> 00:45:26,800
never talk to you any any of you again

1309
00:45:31,430 --> 00:45:28,480
you're not supposed to talk

1310
00:45:33,510 --> 00:45:31,440
so what's going on who talked first

1311
00:45:35,349 --> 00:45:33,520
right well he didn't talk for 30 years

1312
00:45:36,950 --> 00:45:35,359
right he was another one when he talked

1313
00:45:39,510 --> 00:45:36,960
about his encounter to me

1314
00:45:41,510 --> 00:45:39,520
he got very very hyper he got very very

1315
00:45:43,270 --> 00:45:41,520
excited and i had to help him have him

1316
00:45:45,349 --> 00:45:43,280
slow down

1317
00:45:48,069 --> 00:45:45,359
but there's something going on in some

1318
00:45:51,030 --> 00:45:48,079
of these encounters

1319
00:45:53,349 --> 00:45:51,040
where these whoever's running the show

1320
00:45:55,270 --> 00:45:53,359
gets into our head and they

1321
00:45:57,910 --> 00:45:55,280
are able to manipulate our consciousness

1322
00:46:00,550 --> 00:45:57,920
to the extent that they induce fear

1323
00:46:01,750 --> 00:46:00,560
they induce a command like you're not

1324
00:46:02,950 --> 00:46:01,760
going to talk about this so you're not

1325
00:46:04,390 --> 00:46:02,960
going to talk about it intelligently or

1326
00:46:06,150 --> 00:46:04,400
whatever

1327
00:46:07,750 --> 00:46:06,160
so does that mean it's the aliens doing

1328
00:46:09,670 --> 00:46:07,760
it does that mean it's a human black

1329
00:46:11,349 --> 00:46:09,680
budget group doing it that's all

1330
00:46:13,109 --> 00:46:11,359
another question

1331
00:46:14,550 --> 00:46:13,119
but the larger point that i'd like to

1332
00:46:17,670 --> 00:46:14,560
mention especially if i'm in a

1333
00:46:19,910 --> 00:46:17,680
mainstream audience um

1334
00:46:21,670 --> 00:46:19,920
you know the point is not is this alien

1335
00:46:24,309 --> 00:46:21,680
or not necessarily

1336
00:46:26,069 --> 00:46:24,319
the fact is this is a real thing it's

1337
00:46:27,510 --> 00:46:26,079
affecting real people

1338
00:46:29,750 --> 00:46:27,520
and we've got to get to a point in our

1339
00:46:31,910 --> 00:46:29,760
culture where we can discuss this in an

1340
00:46:33,589 --> 00:46:31,920
open intelligent rational way

1341
00:46:36,150 --> 00:46:33,599
i uh

1342
00:46:38,870 --> 00:46:36,160
i share a couple of views on that

1343
00:46:41,670 --> 00:46:38,880
uh the first is i'm a military brat so i

1344
00:46:43,670 --> 00:46:41,680
grew up a child of the 60s and 70s

1345
00:46:47,990 --> 00:46:43,680
living on army bases

1346
00:46:49,510 --> 00:46:48,000
and what you experience with that is you

1347
00:46:51,109 --> 00:46:49,520
believe

1348
00:46:52,870 --> 00:46:51,119
what your government is telling you in

1349
00:46:55,430 --> 00:46:52,880
that atmosphere

1350
00:46:58,069 --> 00:46:55,440
and especially in the 60s

1351
00:47:01,190 --> 00:46:58,079
and today the government doesn't have a

1352
00:47:02,390 --> 00:47:01,200
control the control of this

1353
00:47:04,230 --> 00:47:02,400
of this

1354
00:47:06,870 --> 00:47:04,240
we're broadcasting around the world

1355
00:47:08,870 --> 00:47:06,880
right now there's no fcc regulations

1356
00:47:11,670 --> 00:47:08,880
here there's no well i don't know if

1357
00:47:15,589 --> 00:47:11,680
there's men in black here tonight

1358
00:47:17,270 --> 00:47:15,599
but there's nobody to control us now uh

1359
00:47:21,750 --> 00:47:17,280
they don't

1360
00:47:25,349 --> 00:47:21,760
allows uh you and i and everybody here

1361
00:47:27,910 --> 00:47:25,359
to suddenly have a voice and i i think

1362
00:47:30,230 --> 00:47:27,920
that there's a reaction to that too as

1363
00:47:31,829 --> 00:47:30,240
well and i don't know how

1364
00:47:33,750 --> 00:47:31,839
this is going to end up maybe being

1365
00:47:36,630 --> 00:47:33,760
controlled too

1366
00:47:39,030 --> 00:47:36,640
well control is always their goal so um

1367
00:47:41,030 --> 00:47:39,040
the internet the web i think uh 20 years

1368
00:47:42,550 --> 00:47:41,040
ago was not a development that anyone

1369
00:47:45,589 --> 00:47:42,560
could have foreseen how would turn out

1370
00:47:48,309 --> 00:47:45,599
exactly so um

1371
00:47:49,990 --> 00:47:48,319
so we get this this internet developing

1372
00:47:51,270 --> 00:47:50,000
through the 90s and into the 21st

1373
00:47:53,190 --> 00:47:51,280
century and what has it done it's

1374
00:47:56,069 --> 00:47:53,200
allowed for a complete explosion of

1375
00:47:57,510 --> 00:47:56,079
creativity of communication of of what

1376
00:47:59,109 --> 00:47:57,520
we're doing here

1377
00:48:01,990 --> 00:47:59,119
of people talking to each other around

1378
00:48:03,829 --> 00:48:02,000
the world sharing ideas and um and

1379
00:48:05,670 --> 00:48:03,839
growing in that capacity but of course

1380
00:48:07,109 --> 00:48:05,680
there's always those who rule there are

1381
00:48:09,030 --> 00:48:07,119
always those who are at the top of the

1382
00:48:10,630 --> 00:48:09,040
human food chain

1383
00:48:12,630 --> 00:48:10,640
and they want to maintain control and

1384
00:48:14,069 --> 00:48:12,640
but you know we all know they are

1385
00:48:15,910 --> 00:48:14,079
actively

1386
00:48:17,270 --> 00:48:15,920
working on ways to maintain that control

1387
00:48:18,390 --> 00:48:17,280
through the internet as well as every

1388
00:48:21,750 --> 00:48:18,400
other means

1389
00:48:23,829 --> 00:48:21,760
so this is uh we're in an era right now

1390
00:48:26,150 --> 00:48:23,839
where we're in a

1391
00:48:28,470 --> 00:48:26,160
serious struggle this is a titanic

1392
00:48:30,630 --> 00:48:28,480
monumental struggle of our age and it's

1393
00:48:32,950 --> 00:48:30,640
really the question of um will we have

1394
00:48:34,950 --> 00:48:32,960
global fascism or something approaching

1395
00:48:36,710 --> 00:48:34,960
freedom and we're going to have to see

1396
00:48:38,470 --> 00:48:36,720
this resolve itself in the next

1397
00:48:40,470 --> 00:48:38,480
generation

1398
00:48:41,829 --> 00:48:40,480
there are forces that want to control

1399
00:48:43,430 --> 00:48:41,839
access to the internet in a very

1400
00:48:45,349 --> 00:48:43,440
significant way

1401
00:48:47,030 --> 00:48:45,359
to monitor

1402
00:48:49,030 --> 00:48:47,040
everything that you read

1403
00:48:50,790 --> 00:48:49,040
and be able to go after you if you if

1404
00:48:52,230 --> 00:48:50,800
you have uh

1405
00:48:54,710 --> 00:48:52,240
you know if if you're the nail that

1406
00:48:56,710 --> 00:48:54,720
sticks out they're going to hammer you

1407
00:48:58,230 --> 00:48:56,720
so that's that's one possible world that

1408
00:48:59,750 --> 00:48:58,240
we're moving into and

1409
00:49:01,430 --> 00:48:59,760
and then the other possible world is

1410
00:49:02,950 --> 00:49:01,440
where people are able to organize and do

1411
00:49:04,710 --> 00:49:02,960
things to fight that system and opt out

1412
00:49:06,630 --> 00:49:04,720
of that system you know right now you're

1413
00:49:08,950 --> 00:49:06,640
that nail by the way

1414
00:49:11,270 --> 00:49:08,960
no i'm aware of that and i'm just glad

1415
00:49:13,109 --> 00:49:11,280
that i'm not the only email so so

1416
00:49:14,470 --> 00:49:13,119
there's more of us doing this and

1417
00:49:16,549 --> 00:49:14,480
hopefully they can hit us all on the

1418
00:49:18,150 --> 00:49:16,559
head and we can get something done now i

1419
00:49:20,309 --> 00:49:18,160
had said earlier i have two questions i

1420
00:49:22,309 --> 00:49:20,319
want to indulge myself with so just go

1421
00:49:23,829 --> 00:49:22,319
with me here's the second one

1422
00:49:26,069 --> 00:49:23,839
has anybody

1423
00:49:28,069 --> 00:49:26,079
from washington pulled you aside

1424
00:49:28,829 --> 00:49:28,079
whispered in your ear okay dude check

1425
00:49:31,349 --> 00:49:28,839
this

1426
00:49:33,349 --> 00:49:31,359
out they're here

1427
00:49:35,750 --> 00:49:33,359
i can't i can't go you know i can't i

1428
00:49:37,030 --> 00:49:35,760
can't i can't go public with this yes

1429
00:49:39,990 --> 00:49:37,040
that has happened

1430
00:49:41,910 --> 00:49:40,000
really yes i've had i've had um

1431
00:49:44,470 --> 00:49:41,920
i've had brilliant

1432
00:49:46,710 --> 00:49:44,480
and uh extremely well plugged in

1433
00:49:50,230 --> 00:49:46,720
individuals who have who have spoken

1434
00:49:51,990 --> 00:49:50,240
with me on the dl about this topic

1435
00:49:53,510 --> 00:49:52,000
um it was one of and this has gone on

1436
00:49:54,790 --> 00:49:53,520
for many years i've occasionally

1437
00:49:57,349 --> 00:49:54,800
discussed this

1438
00:49:59,750 --> 00:49:57,359
uh but i haven't given up our names

1439
00:50:02,069 --> 00:49:59,760
um well that would just blow everything

1440
00:50:03,270 --> 00:50:02,079
no right so today if one of them dies

1441
00:50:06,150 --> 00:50:03,280
i'll um

1442
00:50:07,990 --> 00:50:06,160
i i'll consider giving up the name of if

1443
00:50:11,109 --> 00:50:08,000
someone passes away

1444
00:50:12,710 --> 00:50:11,119
but i um will you do it here first

1445
00:50:14,549 --> 00:50:12,720
on your show yes

1446
00:50:15,829 --> 00:50:14,559
you can call me up we'll talk about who

1447
00:50:18,150 --> 00:50:15,839
knows

1448
00:50:19,349 --> 00:50:18,160
um i'll have it i'll describe one of the

1449
00:50:20,790 --> 00:50:19,359
conversations i had with one of these

1450
00:50:23,670 --> 00:50:20,800
gentlemen he was pleased he was a high

1451
00:50:24,829 --> 00:50:23,680
level cia brilliant man

1452
00:50:27,109 --> 00:50:24,839
and

1453
00:50:28,870 --> 00:50:27,119
uh one of the most brilliant people i've

1454
00:50:31,270 --> 00:50:28,880
ever known this is a person that if you

1455
00:50:33,829 --> 00:50:31,280
ask him a question he won't just qualify

1456
00:50:35,349 --> 00:50:33,839
it he'll qualify it like six ways before

1457
00:50:37,030 --> 00:50:35,359
he gives you the answer he's extremely

1458
00:50:39,270 --> 00:50:37,040
meticulous

1459
00:50:41,990 --> 00:50:39,280
he's given briefings to

1460
00:50:44,309 --> 00:50:42,000
at least one president that i know of

1461
00:50:46,069 --> 00:50:44,319
i think more than one president and he's

1462
00:50:47,430 --> 00:50:46,079
extremely brilliant in the realm of

1463
00:50:49,670 --> 00:50:47,440
science

1464
00:50:52,069 --> 00:50:49,680
and a couple of other areas

1465
00:50:53,430 --> 00:50:52,079
and for whatever reason he uh i have his

1466
00:50:55,829 --> 00:50:53,440
phone number we can chat every now and

1467
00:50:58,150 --> 00:50:55,839
then i've had long conversations with

1468
00:51:00,309 --> 00:50:58,160
him and i know a lot about him

1469
00:51:01,750 --> 00:51:00,319
so on one occasion i asked him

1470
00:51:04,069 --> 00:51:01,760
the question that anyone would ask

1471
00:51:06,069 --> 00:51:04,079
someone like him how much

1472
00:51:07,670 --> 00:51:06,079
well what do u.s presidents know that

1473
00:51:08,790 --> 00:51:07,680
was one question that was my question to

1474
00:51:10,470 --> 00:51:08,800
you okay

1475
00:51:12,549 --> 00:51:10,480
what what does the president or do

1476
00:51:14,790 --> 00:51:12,559
presidents know and his answer

1477
00:51:15,750 --> 00:51:14,800
was well some have known more than

1478
00:51:17,430 --> 00:51:15,760
others

1479
00:51:19,109 --> 00:51:17,440
he said think of it this way

1480
00:51:21,349 --> 00:51:19,119
presidents come and go

1481
00:51:24,390 --> 00:51:21,359
some are really intelligent some maybe

1482
00:51:25,670 --> 00:51:24,400
not as much some are reliable some drink

1483
00:51:28,790 --> 00:51:25,680
those words

1484
00:51:30,230 --> 00:51:28,800
uh some are you know not stable

1485
00:51:32,309 --> 00:51:30,240
and he said this to me during the bush

1486
00:51:34,790 --> 00:51:32,319
the george w bush administration and and

1487
00:51:38,390 --> 00:51:34,800
he he was i mean

1488
00:51:41,430 --> 00:51:38,400
he was referring to george w bush

1489
00:51:45,589 --> 00:51:43,829
he didn't say but he made it clear

1490
00:51:47,910 --> 00:51:45,599
so uh

1491
00:51:50,069 --> 00:51:47,920
and um he said but the bureaucrats the

1492
00:51:51,750 --> 00:51:50,079
people running this are they're there

1493
00:51:52,549 --> 00:51:51,760
forever it

1494
00:51:54,549 --> 00:51:52,559
and

1495
00:51:56,790 --> 00:51:54,559
they don't always just willingly give up

1496
00:51:58,470 --> 00:51:56,800
this information one thing he did say

1497
00:52:00,630 --> 00:51:58,480
regarding who knows

1498
00:52:03,030 --> 00:52:00,640
he said i had conversations one on one

1499
00:52:04,870 --> 00:52:03,040
with 18 former

1500
00:52:07,349 --> 00:52:04,880
presidents secretaries of defense and

1501
00:52:08,230 --> 00:52:07,359
cia directors so those three the top you

1502
00:52:10,309 --> 00:52:08,240
know

1503
00:52:11,750 --> 00:52:10,319
of the three powerful so 18 of those

1504
00:52:12,950 --> 00:52:11,760
retired

1505
00:52:15,750 --> 00:52:12,960
individuals

1506
00:52:17,270 --> 00:52:15,760
about the topic of ufos one-on-one

1507
00:52:19,349 --> 00:52:17,280
pretty cool thing to have done think

1508
00:52:20,950 --> 00:52:19,359
about how neat that is

1509
00:52:23,349 --> 00:52:20,960
and he said

1510
00:52:25,190 --> 00:52:23,359
their attitudes broke down into three

1511
00:52:26,470 --> 00:52:25,200
basic groups

1512
00:52:28,549 --> 00:52:26,480
on one

1513
00:52:30,470 --> 00:52:28,559
side a very small number

1514
00:52:32,870 --> 00:52:30,480
of individuals said

1515
00:52:35,190 --> 00:52:32,880
oh yes ufos yes i've been briefed on

1516
00:52:37,430 --> 00:52:35,200
that i i know a bit about that

1517
00:52:39,030 --> 00:52:37,440
another equally small group another like

1518
00:52:41,349 --> 00:52:39,040
maybe two or three

1519
00:52:43,270 --> 00:52:41,359
or three or four would say

1520
00:52:44,790 --> 00:52:43,280
ufos what is wrong with you you're

1521
00:52:47,030 --> 00:52:44,800
wasting your time on that nonsense

1522
00:52:49,990 --> 00:52:47,040
stupid topic he said

1523
00:52:51,270 --> 00:52:50,000
the largest group

1524
00:52:53,910 --> 00:52:51,280
uh maybe

1525
00:52:55,190 --> 00:52:53,920
of the 18 maybe 10 let's say

1526
00:52:56,390 --> 00:52:55,200
said oh

1527
00:52:58,309 --> 00:52:56,400
ufos

1528
00:52:59,510 --> 00:52:58,319
that's fascinating i have been trying to

1529
00:53:03,109 --> 00:52:59,520
get information on that and i haven't

1530
00:53:04,870 --> 00:53:03,119
gotten squat why not and why do you

1531
00:53:06,710 --> 00:53:04,880
this is the thing and i'm i'm going to

1532
00:53:07,829 --> 00:53:06,720
speak for everybody in this room right

1533
00:53:09,829 --> 00:53:07,839
now

1534
00:53:12,230 --> 00:53:09,839
it seems like

1535
00:53:15,349 --> 00:53:12,240
every president that's or no every

1536
00:53:18,390 --> 00:53:15,359
candidate that's running for president

1537
00:53:20,630 --> 00:53:18,400
that the issue of ufos has come up oh

1538
00:53:22,150 --> 00:53:20,640
when i get there when i get there i'll

1539
00:53:25,430 --> 00:53:22,160
find out for you

1540
00:53:26,470 --> 00:53:25,440
and they get into office and then

1541
00:53:28,069 --> 00:53:26,480
nothing

1542
00:53:30,150 --> 00:53:28,079
silence

1543
00:53:32,309 --> 00:53:30,160
is it because a

1544
00:53:34,630 --> 00:53:32,319
uh there isn't anything to find out or

1545
00:53:36,870 --> 00:53:34,640
is it b

1546
00:53:38,309 --> 00:53:36,880
they're not told anything at all well i

1547
00:53:40,150 --> 00:53:38,319
think the answer you know you're

1548
00:53:42,150 --> 00:53:40,160
referring indirectly to jimmy carter and

1549
00:53:44,230 --> 00:53:42,160
i have a jimmy carter story told to me

1550
00:53:46,710 --> 00:53:44,240
by this man this very man well you had

1551
00:53:48,390 --> 00:53:46,720
gerald ford and he had clinton you know

1552
00:53:50,230 --> 00:53:48,400
i think everybody's been confronted with

1553
00:53:51,990 --> 00:53:50,240
it uh you want your mic on there steve

1554
00:53:53,750 --> 00:53:52,000
shelton yeah clinton was big on that

1555
00:53:55,670 --> 00:53:53,760
yeah oh yeah yeah

1556
00:53:59,750 --> 00:53:55,680
well with the the carter story this this

1557
00:54:01,829 --> 00:53:59,760
cia man um and again i'll just say i

1558
00:54:03,349 --> 00:54:01,839
i implicitly i you know i know his

1559
00:54:05,270 --> 00:54:03,359
background i know a lot about him and i

1560
00:54:06,309 --> 00:54:05,280
believe him when he says this to me

1561
00:54:08,390 --> 00:54:06,319
and uh

1562
00:54:11,190 --> 00:54:08,400
he said jimmy carter was briefed on this

1563
00:54:12,790 --> 00:54:11,200
topic in june of 1977.

1564
00:54:13,910 --> 00:54:12,800
he doesn't know exactly what was said to

1565
00:54:16,069 --> 00:54:13,920
carter

1566
00:54:18,309 --> 00:54:16,079
but he does know

1567
00:54:19,589 --> 00:54:18,319
he said extremely reliably that when

1568
00:54:21,190 --> 00:54:19,599
carter was seen at the end of that

1569
00:54:22,150 --> 00:54:21,200
briefing and i wrote about this in one

1570
00:54:23,829 --> 00:54:22,160
of my books

1571
00:54:25,030 --> 00:54:23,839
he was seen with his elbows on his desk

1572
00:54:26,390 --> 00:54:25,040
head and his head in his hands and he

1573
00:54:28,630 --> 00:54:26,400
was sobbing

1574
00:54:30,870 --> 00:54:28,640
so he was deeply upset by whatever it

1575
00:54:32,630 --> 00:54:30,880
was that he was told

1576
00:54:34,309 --> 00:54:32,640
so the thing is

1577
00:54:35,670 --> 00:54:34,319
how much do presidents know what do they

1578
00:54:39,190 --> 00:54:35,680
know

1579
00:54:40,870 --> 00:54:39,200
apparently a lot of them aren't briefed

1580
00:54:42,790 --> 00:54:40,880
the way that they want to be and that

1581
00:54:43,910 --> 00:54:42,800
begs the question of who

1582
00:54:47,750 --> 00:54:43,920
is

1583
00:54:49,510 --> 00:54:47,760
that very question i said so are we

1584
00:54:51,349 --> 00:54:49,520
talking about uh

1585
00:54:53,589 --> 00:54:51,359
something like the bilderbergers you

1586
00:54:55,349 --> 00:54:53,599
know the financial elites of the world

1587
00:54:57,030 --> 00:54:55,359
and and all he could say is yes

1588
00:54:58,710 --> 00:54:57,040
something like that

1589
00:55:01,430 --> 00:54:58,720
uh we're at the top of the hour so just

1590
00:55:03,349 --> 00:55:01,440
say this kjcr dark matter network fade

1591
00:55:07,750 --> 00:55:03,359
to black we are sitting with richard

1592
00:55:13,430 --> 00:55:09,589
and

1593
00:55:14,710 --> 00:55:13,440
okay before we get back into the book um

1594
00:55:15,510 --> 00:55:14,720
uh

1595
00:55:17,750 --> 00:55:15,520
when

1596
00:55:19,030 --> 00:55:17,760
i i just want to say this again

1597
00:55:22,150 --> 00:55:19,040
correctly

1598
00:55:25,270 --> 00:55:22,160
um with with the subject when it comes

1599
00:55:27,750 --> 00:55:25,280
to the white house what is the event do

1600
00:55:30,150 --> 00:55:27,760
you think that would tip the scale

1601
00:55:31,829 --> 00:55:30,160
aside from the obvious answer and and

1602
00:55:33,990 --> 00:55:31,839
then i've i've got another follow-up

1603
00:55:35,910 --> 00:55:34,000
question the obvious you know you know

1604
00:55:39,270 --> 00:55:35,920
white house lawn kind of thing right

1605
00:55:40,549 --> 00:55:39,280
what what is the event that you think

1606
00:55:42,710 --> 00:55:40,559
would

1607
00:55:44,390 --> 00:55:42,720
you know open those doors um either a

1608
00:55:45,750 --> 00:55:44,400
leak like a wikileaks type of thing or

1609
00:55:47,349 --> 00:55:45,760
an edward snowden type of thing where

1610
00:55:48,710 --> 00:55:47,359
something leaks out illegally but it's

1611
00:55:50,150 --> 00:55:48,720
out there and

1612
00:55:52,069 --> 00:55:50,160
and becomes an embarrassment it has to

1613
00:55:53,910 --> 00:55:52,079
be dealt with that's one obvious

1614
00:55:55,270 --> 00:55:53,920
possibility in my mind another would be

1615
00:55:57,270 --> 00:55:55,280
a mass sighting not necessarily

1616
00:55:58,950 --> 00:55:57,280
necessarily on the white house lawn but

1617
00:56:00,710 --> 00:55:58,960
in an age where we have multiple cameras

1618
00:56:03,270 --> 00:56:00,720
available to capture things

1619
00:56:04,870 --> 00:56:03,280
there is always the possibility and i

1620
00:56:06,630 --> 00:56:04,880
think increasingly a likelihood as we

1621
00:56:08,390 --> 00:56:06,640
move forward that something will be

1622
00:56:10,150 --> 00:56:08,400
captured that will be

1623
00:56:12,710 --> 00:56:10,160
undeniable

1624
00:56:14,069 --> 00:56:12,720
aside uh you know overcoming the fact

1625
00:56:16,549 --> 00:56:14,079
that you're going to have

1626
00:56:17,990 --> 00:56:16,559
uh arguments about cgi and fakery and

1627
00:56:20,470 --> 00:56:18,000
everything but i think that there that

1628
00:56:21,670 --> 00:56:20,480
it's an inevitability that we're getting

1629
00:56:24,230 --> 00:56:21,680
to a point where

1630
00:56:27,109 --> 00:56:24,240
something's gonna give one of those

1631
00:56:28,309 --> 00:56:27,119
we talked about hollywood earlier

1632
00:56:30,549 --> 00:56:28,319
do you think

1633
00:56:32,789 --> 00:56:30,559
again this is me asking a personal

1634
00:56:34,470 --> 00:56:32,799
question but do you think oh well and

1635
00:56:36,710 --> 00:56:34,480
then i have one other one other thing

1636
00:56:39,190 --> 00:56:36,720
that made me which is simply uh

1637
00:56:41,190 --> 00:56:39,200
developments in computing intelligence

1638
00:56:43,829 --> 00:56:41,200
uh i think that we we might get to a

1639
00:56:45,349 --> 00:56:43,839
period in another 20 years possibly

1640
00:56:47,190 --> 00:56:45,359
where our computing capability is going

1641
00:56:48,870 --> 00:56:47,200
to be so advanced so incredible we're

1642
00:56:50,630 --> 00:56:48,880
actually going to be able to yank out

1643
00:56:52,630 --> 00:56:50,640
answers that we can't even conceive of

1644
00:56:55,030 --> 00:56:52,640
yanking out today

1645
00:56:56,829 --> 00:56:55,040
whether that's through advanced ai or or

1646
00:56:59,349 --> 00:56:56,839
some other similar

1647
00:57:01,910 --> 00:56:59,359
development it's exactly my next

1648
00:57:03,349 --> 00:57:01,920
question oh hang on steve

1649
00:57:06,069 --> 00:57:03,359
richard if you go into that a little bit

1650
00:57:08,230 --> 00:57:06,079
more when you say ai yanking in answers

1651
00:57:10,789 --> 00:57:08,240
what do you mean by that well uh

1652
00:57:14,390 --> 00:57:10,799
artificial intelligence and advanced

1653
00:57:15,910 --> 00:57:14,400
computing in general um

1654
00:57:17,430 --> 00:57:15,920
you know

1655
00:57:20,230 --> 00:57:17,440
people think ufos are a little whack

1656
00:57:22,230 --> 00:57:20,240
they should read books by mainstream are

1657
00:57:24,309 --> 00:57:22,240
thinkers on artificial intelligence and

1658
00:57:25,349 --> 00:57:24,319
you want to read a wild story read those

1659
00:57:26,630 --> 00:57:25,359
books

1660
00:57:28,630 --> 00:57:26,640
they're these are people who get

1661
00:57:29,829 --> 00:57:28,640
significant funding for what they do and

1662
00:57:31,829 --> 00:57:29,839
they're very mainstream and what are

1663
00:57:33,910 --> 00:57:31,839
they arguing they're saying

1664
00:57:35,670 --> 00:57:33,920
20 years maybe 30 years from now they

1665
00:57:38,230 --> 00:57:35,680
argue over the duration but we're going

1666
00:57:39,510 --> 00:57:38,240
to get to a point where computers will

1667
00:57:40,549 --> 00:57:39,520
seem

1668
00:57:41,990 --> 00:57:40,559
conscious

1669
00:57:44,549 --> 00:57:42,000
whether they are not is another issue

1670
00:57:47,270 --> 00:57:44,559
but they'll be able to talk back to you

1671
00:57:48,710 --> 00:57:47,280
they'll have maybe a relative iq of 500

1672
00:57:50,950 --> 00:57:48,720
or better who knows they're going to

1673
00:57:53,670 --> 00:57:50,960
seem like very intel one writer ray

1674
00:57:55,589 --> 00:57:53,680
kurzweil called the intelligence

1675
00:57:57,750 --> 00:57:55,599
of a god-like level of intelligence well

1676
00:57:59,829 --> 00:57:57,760
if this is true

1677
00:58:01,510 --> 00:57:59,839
and uh these are not you know these

1678
00:58:02,789 --> 00:58:01,520
aren't chumps these are smart very

1679
00:58:05,430 --> 00:58:02,799
brilliant people they get a lot of

1680
00:58:07,190 --> 00:58:05,440
serious attention

1681
00:58:08,630 --> 00:58:07,200
think about it you have a computer 20

1682
00:58:10,710 --> 00:58:08,640
years from now

1683
00:58:12,549 --> 00:58:10,720
you wake up you'll say hey marvin and

1684
00:58:14,789 --> 00:58:12,559
marvin will say hello

1685
00:58:16,069 --> 00:58:14,799
marvin i was just thinking about ufos i

1686
00:58:17,589 --> 00:58:16,079
just occurred to me that you might have

1687
00:58:19,430 --> 00:58:17,599
some ideas on this and marvin will say

1688
00:58:21,109 --> 00:58:19,440
oh well yes absolutely

1689
00:58:22,390 --> 00:58:21,119
and marvin will be able to put together

1690
00:58:24,390 --> 00:58:22,400
a very

1691
00:58:25,990 --> 00:58:24,400
cogent analysis of all the known data

1692
00:58:28,069 --> 00:58:26,000
and and probably provide you with some

1693
00:58:29,190 --> 00:58:28,079
information about this sounds silly

1694
00:58:30,710 --> 00:58:29,200
maybe but

1695
00:58:32,630 --> 00:58:30,720
why wouldn't that be possible or

1696
00:58:34,390 --> 00:58:32,640
something along the lines where

1697
00:58:37,270 --> 00:58:34,400
think of it just generally speaking we

1698
00:58:39,589 --> 00:58:37,280
have tools today in 2014 that were not

1699
00:58:41,270 --> 00:58:39,599
imaginable to us 20 years ago it's

1700
00:58:44,950 --> 00:58:41,280
called the iphone

1701
00:58:46,309 --> 00:58:44,960
yes yeah smartphones right and um

1702
00:58:49,190 --> 00:58:46,319
what are our tools going to be in

1703
00:58:52,150 --> 00:58:49,200
another 20 years when you compared 2014

1704
00:58:53,990 --> 00:58:52,160
to 1994 it's two different universes yes

1705
00:58:55,349 --> 00:58:54,000
it is so obviously time's not going to

1706
00:58:57,670 --> 00:58:55,359
stop it's not going to stand still we're

1707
00:59:00,470 --> 00:58:57,680
going to have a 2034 what's it going to

1708
00:59:02,150 --> 00:59:00,480
be like so i i just think to uh

1709
00:59:04,230 --> 00:59:02,160
when we look at these developments on

1710
00:59:06,150 --> 00:59:04,240
our new tools i think we're fools if we

1711
00:59:09,190 --> 00:59:06,160
think we're not going to have

1712
00:59:11,589 --> 00:59:09,200
new um new opportunities

1713
00:59:13,430 --> 00:59:11,599
to open this this topic up so i mean i

1714
00:59:15,430 --> 00:59:13,440
guess what i'm saying to you is

1715
00:59:17,270 --> 00:59:15,440
my imagination is limited

1716
00:59:18,390 --> 00:59:17,280
because of where we're at in time but i

1717
00:59:20,630 --> 00:59:18,400
think that there are going to be new

1718
00:59:22,549 --> 00:59:20,640
vistas opening up in the next generation

1719
00:59:24,069 --> 00:59:22,559
one last question before we get into the

1720
00:59:25,750 --> 00:59:24,079
book

1721
00:59:27,910 --> 00:59:25,760
does steven spielberg know something

1722
00:59:29,990 --> 00:59:27,920
that we don't

1723
00:59:32,309 --> 00:59:30,000
i think yes i think that he probably

1724
00:59:34,710 --> 00:59:32,319
does i've never had the pleasure to have

1725
00:59:36,150 --> 00:59:34,720
a conversation with him i mean you know

1726
00:59:38,870 --> 00:59:36,160
but um

1727
00:59:41,670 --> 00:59:38,880
and you understand the question

1728
00:59:43,750 --> 00:59:41,680
yes of course uh this is a guy who is as

1729
00:59:44,950 --> 00:59:43,760
plugged into hollywood as as anyone has

1730
00:59:47,349 --> 00:59:44,960
ever been

1731
00:59:49,589 --> 00:59:47,359
he's had a lifelong

1732
00:59:52,309 --> 00:59:49,599
interest in discussing in uh and

1733
00:59:54,789 --> 00:59:52,319
treating this particular topic

1734
00:59:57,030 --> 00:59:54,799
in various ways from his early years

1735
00:59:59,430 --> 00:59:57,040
with where you know the et was kind of a

1736
01:00:00,870 --> 00:59:59,440
positive benefit beneficent sort of

1737
01:00:02,789 --> 01:00:00,880
thing to uh

1738
01:00:04,870 --> 01:00:02,799
later you know doing a series like taken

1739
01:00:06,870 --> 01:00:04,880
which is very dark and and distressing

1740
01:00:09,349 --> 01:00:06,880
and ominous

1741
01:00:10,789 --> 01:00:09,359
to uh independence day with tom cruise

1742
01:00:11,750 --> 01:00:10,799
where you know they're blowing up the

1743
01:00:13,190 --> 01:00:11,760
world

1744
01:00:15,109 --> 01:00:13,200
so he's taken a number of different

1745
01:00:16,870 --> 01:00:15,119
takes on this and partly that could just

1746
01:00:18,950 --> 01:00:16,880
be an an artist trying out different

1747
01:00:21,190 --> 01:00:18,960
visions that's certainly fair war of the

1748
01:00:23,510 --> 01:00:21,200
worlds yeah oh right what did i say

1749
01:00:25,510 --> 01:00:23,520
independent statements

1750
01:00:27,030 --> 01:00:25,520
no thank you thanks for the correction

1751
01:00:30,870 --> 01:00:27,040
but um

1752
01:00:33,109 --> 01:00:30,880
hollywood is so important

1753
01:00:35,510 --> 01:00:33,119
as a creator of global consciousness and

1754
01:00:39,190 --> 01:00:35,520
also global control

1755
01:00:42,470 --> 01:00:39,200
global control hollywood is key okay and

1756
01:00:44,950 --> 01:00:42,480
and there's no way in hell that the

1757
01:00:46,470 --> 01:00:44,960
u.s national security state is simply

1758
01:00:49,430 --> 01:00:46,480
going to allow hollywood to go run off

1759
01:00:51,109 --> 01:00:49,440
on assange for for mere profit motive

1760
01:00:52,390 --> 01:00:51,119
so there's going to be cia connections

1761
01:00:53,829 --> 01:00:52,400
there's going to be military connections

1762
01:00:55,829 --> 01:00:53,839
to hollywood and there have been and we

1763
01:00:57,349 --> 01:00:55,839
we had this confirmed not even more just

1764
01:00:59,349 --> 01:00:57,359
about a year ago

1765
01:01:02,309 --> 01:00:59,359
with a gentleman named chase brandon

1766
01:01:04,150 --> 01:01:02,319
great story retired cia and he's for

1767
01:01:07,270 --> 01:01:04,160
real you can check him out and he said

1768
01:01:10,230 --> 01:01:07,280
my job was to be cia's liaison to

1769
01:01:11,270 --> 01:01:10,240
hollywood i think he wrote some scripts

1770
01:01:13,270 --> 01:01:11,280
as well

1771
01:01:15,349 --> 01:01:13,280
yeah he's a he's a competent capable

1772
01:01:16,789 --> 01:01:15,359
writer and he's he's the right guy to

1773
01:01:18,789 --> 01:01:16,799
deal with hollywood and he's got the

1774
01:01:22,150 --> 01:01:18,799
right personality apparently

1775
01:01:24,390 --> 01:01:22,160
but the job was to monitor and sort of

1776
01:01:26,549 --> 01:01:24,400
oversee the message

1777
01:01:28,950 --> 01:01:26,559
that hollywood movies had on this

1778
01:01:31,349 --> 01:01:28,960
particular topic guaranteed that they've

1779
01:01:33,190 --> 01:01:31,359
got other people monitoring messages of

1780
01:01:34,630 --> 01:01:33,200
all other types whether it's support

1781
01:01:35,750 --> 01:01:34,640
your troops

1782
01:01:40,870 --> 01:01:35,760
or

1783
01:01:43,030 --> 01:01:40,880
very afraid so that we can you know have

1784
01:01:45,430 --> 01:01:43,040
new homeland security laws labeled you

1785
01:01:48,789 --> 01:01:45,440
know laying down against you or whatever

1786
01:01:51,829 --> 01:01:48,799
but this is part of their job is to um

1787
01:01:54,150 --> 01:01:51,839
i think distract and still

1788
01:01:55,750 --> 01:01:54,160
uh and instill a a perceived need to

1789
01:01:57,430 --> 01:01:55,760
rely on

1790
01:01:59,190 --> 01:01:57,440
the powerful government powerful

1791
01:02:00,150 --> 01:01:59,200
military to protect you from evil

1792
01:02:02,549 --> 01:02:00,160
threats

1793
01:02:06,309 --> 01:02:02,559
do you do you think that uh

1794
01:02:08,150 --> 01:02:06,319
with a.d and disclosure after disclosure

1795
01:02:10,710 --> 01:02:08,160
the idea

1796
01:02:12,470 --> 01:02:10,720
at least to me of anarchy in the streets

1797
01:02:14,069 --> 01:02:12,480
and the collapse of religion i don't

1798
01:02:15,430 --> 01:02:14,079
think that would happen

1799
01:02:18,789 --> 01:02:15,440
i think that

1800
01:02:20,630 --> 01:02:18,799
the the the worst

1801
01:02:23,990 --> 01:02:20,640
of the two would be if you don't

1802
01:02:25,990 --> 01:02:24,000
disclose well i think that uh

1803
01:02:30,069 --> 01:02:26,000
society in general now would be more

1804
01:02:31,670 --> 01:02:30,079
relaxed and and relieved if they knew

1805
01:02:33,430 --> 01:02:31,680
that there was life out there would be

1806
01:02:36,870 --> 01:02:33,440
like okay well that question is answered

1807
01:02:39,829 --> 01:02:36,880
now we can move on i i wonder

1808
01:02:41,670 --> 01:02:39,839
maybe we we here we live this topic i

1809
01:02:43,510 --> 01:02:41,680
live this topic day in day out it's on

1810
01:02:46,230 --> 01:02:43,520
my mind every single day

1811
01:02:48,390 --> 01:02:46,240
and i i suspect i would be

1812
01:02:51,030 --> 01:02:48,400
although i might myself have a feeling

1813
01:02:52,950 --> 01:02:51,040
of ominous dread because like like

1814
01:02:54,630 --> 01:02:52,960
knowing okay this stuff just got real

1815
01:02:56,309 --> 01:02:54,640
now we're moving into the next phase

1816
01:02:57,910 --> 01:02:56,319
right but there are people i have

1817
01:02:59,349 --> 01:02:57,920
relatives and i love them all but i've

1818
01:03:00,150 --> 01:02:59,359
got a lot of relatives i'm sure you do

1819
01:03:02,069 --> 01:03:00,160
too

1820
01:03:03,430 --> 01:03:02,079
who they're not on board with this and

1821
01:03:05,270 --> 01:03:03,440
not only are they not on board they're

1822
01:03:07,030 --> 01:03:05,280
not thinking about this this is not part

1823
01:03:08,390 --> 01:03:07,040
of their reality

1824
01:03:10,630 --> 01:03:08,400
and um

1825
01:03:13,829 --> 01:03:10,640
one thing that i have noticed about this

1826
01:03:15,750 --> 01:03:13,839
subject is that it's dangerous in a way

1827
01:03:17,589 --> 01:03:15,760
this is not a subject that i feel is for

1828
01:03:18,870 --> 01:03:17,599
the faint of heart

1829
01:03:21,270 --> 01:03:18,880
i have seen

1830
01:03:23,109 --> 01:03:21,280
uh associates and friends

1831
01:03:25,430 --> 01:03:23,119
some of them i mean really almost lose

1832
01:03:27,029 --> 01:03:25,440
it lose their stability when they dive

1833
01:03:28,309 --> 01:03:27,039
into this why

1834
01:03:34,230 --> 01:03:28,319
because

1835
01:03:36,470 --> 01:03:34,240
the very real ability to to turn

1836
01:03:37,829 --> 01:03:36,480
your all of your previous paradigms

1837
01:03:39,270 --> 01:03:37,839
inside out

1838
01:03:43,109 --> 01:03:39,280
and that's a hard thing for a lot of

1839
01:03:44,630 --> 01:03:43,119
people to to deal with i mean it just is

1840
01:03:46,309 --> 01:03:44,640
so when you're dealing with the general

1841
01:03:47,670 --> 01:03:46,319
population

1842
01:03:49,750 --> 01:03:47,680
yes we've you can say we've been

1843
01:03:51,510 --> 01:03:49,760
acculturated through hollywood movies

1844
01:03:53,670 --> 01:03:51,520
but the fact is that almost none of

1845
01:03:56,150 --> 01:03:53,680
those movies truly accurately portray

1846
01:03:58,309 --> 01:03:56,160
the actual ufo phenomenon what do they

1847
01:03:59,750 --> 01:03:58,319
do it's cowboys and aliens let's shoot

1848
01:04:02,230 --> 01:03:59,760
em up bang bang

1849
01:04:03,990 --> 01:04:02,240
nothing that's actually genuinely

1850
01:04:05,990 --> 01:04:04,000
along the top if they were to do stuff

1851
01:04:07,990 --> 01:04:06,000
that dealt with the actual ufo phenomena

1852
01:04:09,670 --> 01:04:08,000
it'd be scary as hell

1853
01:04:12,230 --> 01:04:09,680
some of it would be

1854
01:04:13,349 --> 01:04:12,240
you know absolutely creepy yeah i mean

1855
01:04:14,950 --> 01:04:13,359
especially in the abduction of

1856
01:04:17,829 --> 01:04:14,960
phenomenon obviously i mean can you

1857
01:04:20,390 --> 01:04:17,839
imagine disclosure and then shortly

1858
01:04:24,309 --> 01:04:20,400
thereafter millions of people are going

1859
01:04:25,430 --> 01:04:24,319
you know who were previously alone going

1860
01:04:27,190 --> 01:04:25,440
you mean

1861
01:04:29,190 --> 01:04:27,200
all that stuff that i thought i was

1862
01:04:32,150 --> 01:04:29,200
going crazy that that's really happening

1863
01:04:34,230 --> 01:04:32,160
to me and that thought that knowledge is

1864
01:04:35,349 --> 01:04:34,240
terrifying and i've seen

1865
01:04:38,470 --> 01:04:35,359
uh

1866
01:04:40,870 --> 01:04:38,480
abductees contactees literally spin out

1867
01:04:42,390 --> 01:04:40,880
and just lose it and you know you don't

1868
01:04:44,549 --> 01:04:42,400
they they end up

1869
01:04:45,990 --> 01:04:44,559
hurting well

1870
01:04:48,789 --> 01:04:46,000
for everybody out there that's that's

1871
01:04:51,029 --> 01:04:48,799
steve marillo um now steve well you

1872
01:04:52,549 --> 01:04:51,039
bring up a good point and and i'll point

1873
01:04:53,670 --> 01:04:52,559
this at richard

1874
01:04:55,990 --> 01:04:53,680
um

1875
01:04:58,710 --> 01:04:56,000
so what you're suggesting is that maybe

1876
01:05:00,150 --> 01:04:58,720
an abductee maybe doesn't want to know

1877
01:05:02,390 --> 01:05:00,160
the truth

1878
01:05:05,109 --> 01:05:02,400
yeah you know bud hopkins

1879
01:05:07,029 --> 01:05:05,119
uh he would say look if you're

1880
01:05:08,870 --> 01:05:07,039
functioning fun if you think you might

1881
01:05:10,789 --> 01:05:08,880
be an abductee but you're functioning in

1882
01:05:13,029 --> 01:05:10,799
life you have a good job you're happy

1883
01:05:14,630 --> 01:05:13,039
you're married whatever your your life

1884
01:05:16,870 --> 01:05:14,640
is just okay

1885
01:05:18,390 --> 01:05:16,880
um you know do i want to do you want me

1886
01:05:21,109 --> 01:05:18,400
to hypnotize you and bring out those

1887
01:05:23,510 --> 01:05:21,119
memories no right it's a pandora's box

1888
01:05:25,589 --> 01:05:23,520
you can't yeah be prepared for what yeah

1889
01:05:27,910 --> 01:05:25,599
yeah you cannot shut that door once you

1890
01:05:29,750 --> 01:05:27,920
open it it's it's game over and then you

1891
01:05:32,309 --> 01:05:29,760
know then you got to deal with

1892
01:05:34,470 --> 01:05:32,319
okay so now if that's really you know so

1893
01:05:36,309 --> 01:05:34,480
the government lied to me about that

1894
01:05:38,630 --> 01:05:36,319
what else are they lying to me about

1895
01:05:40,950 --> 01:05:38,640
well everything yeah so you know i mean

1896
01:05:43,750 --> 01:05:40,960
it just literally tears your paradigm

1897
01:05:45,829 --> 01:05:43,760
apart and the other thing about panic uh

1898
01:05:47,750 --> 01:05:45,839
you know after a disclosure statement

1899
01:05:49,589 --> 01:05:47,760
think about how supermarkets can get

1900
01:05:51,670 --> 01:05:49,599
just drained of toilet paper and baked

1901
01:05:53,029 --> 01:05:51,680
beans canned beans and things like that

1902
01:05:54,630 --> 01:05:53,039
when there's uh

1903
01:05:56,789 --> 01:05:54,640
you know any kind of

1904
01:05:58,309 --> 01:05:56,799
uh panic perceived like

1905
01:05:59,910 --> 01:05:58,319
uh you know anything i i think there

1906
01:06:02,309 --> 01:05:59,920
would probably be a run on that probably

1907
01:06:04,230 --> 01:06:02,319
be a run on guns and ammo

1908
01:06:06,870 --> 01:06:04,240
oh we do that about every 10 years here

1909
01:06:08,470 --> 01:06:06,880
in los angeles so so not that that would

1910
01:06:11,190 --> 01:06:08,480
shut society down

1911
01:06:13,829 --> 01:06:11,200
we're prepared here that's for sure okay

1912
01:06:15,589 --> 01:06:13,839
what i'd like to do if you don't mind uh

1913
01:06:18,470 --> 01:06:15,599
uh i want to start to go through the

1914
01:06:20,150 --> 01:06:18,480
book believe it or not we've already

1915
01:06:21,750 --> 01:06:20,160
gone through an hour

1916
01:06:23,670 --> 01:06:21,760
it doesn't even seem like it so it's

1917
01:06:26,069 --> 01:06:23,680
been fun yeah totally

1918
01:06:28,549 --> 01:06:26,079
um let's uh i want to i want to go

1919
01:06:30,950 --> 01:06:28,559
through the book and i i just want uh

1920
01:06:34,549 --> 01:06:30,960
some you know chapter by chapter because

1921
01:06:37,029 --> 01:06:34,559
each each chapter in the book is a

1922
01:06:38,630 --> 01:06:37,039
question in itself that if it wasn't in

1923
01:06:39,910 --> 01:06:38,640
the book you and i would sit here and go

1924
01:06:42,069 --> 01:06:39,920
over this anyway

1925
01:06:44,230 --> 01:06:42,079
and and i'm sure you agree

1926
01:06:46,309 --> 01:06:44,240
but the but the first chapter is one of

1927
01:06:47,750 --> 01:06:46,319
the best and i've got to hear your

1928
01:06:50,470 --> 01:06:47,760
answer on this

1929
01:06:52,710 --> 01:06:50,480
what's a ufo yeah well actually all of

1930
01:06:54,230 --> 01:06:52,720
these chapters when i wrote this book i

1931
01:06:56,630 --> 01:06:54,240
i felt

1932
01:06:57,910 --> 01:06:56,640
uh i thought chapter one was good and i

1933
01:06:59,349 --> 01:06:57,920
thought oh but i like chapter two a

1934
01:07:01,109 --> 01:06:59,359
little more oh but i like chapter three

1935
01:07:02,870 --> 01:07:01,119
more than that chapter four i tried to

1936
01:07:04,309 --> 01:07:02,880
have this crescendo so that i felt like

1937
01:07:06,549 --> 01:07:04,319
it got better and better that was my

1938
01:07:08,150 --> 01:07:06,559
take on it but people have their own

1939
01:07:10,390 --> 01:07:08,160
the first chapter what are ufos was

1940
01:07:12,470 --> 01:07:10,400
basically an introduction um

1941
01:07:15,029 --> 01:07:12,480
to get a philosophical grounding in this

1942
01:07:17,589 --> 01:07:15,039
phenomenon and simply to point out

1943
01:07:19,589 --> 01:07:17,599
the obvious obvious thing that skeptics

1944
01:07:21,190 --> 01:07:19,599
rightly point out which is that most of

1945
01:07:23,190 --> 01:07:21,200
the crazy things that you think you see

1946
01:07:25,750 --> 01:07:23,200
in the sky really are genuinely

1947
01:07:28,069 --> 01:07:25,760
explainable in a conventional sense if

1948
01:07:29,190 --> 01:07:28,079
you just take the time to figure it out

1949
01:07:31,990 --> 01:07:29,200
um

1950
01:07:33,670 --> 01:07:32,000
you know it's almost the lesson of

1951
01:07:35,910 --> 01:07:33,680
what are the different things that can

1952
01:07:38,309 --> 01:07:35,920
be ufos and i that's one of the things

1953
01:07:39,670 --> 01:07:38,319
that i go over you know from uh

1954
01:07:41,349 --> 01:07:39,680
traditional

1955
01:07:43,029 --> 01:07:41,359
our arguments like the planet venus

1956
01:07:44,549 --> 01:07:43,039
which it's a cliche but it's a cliche

1957
01:07:46,789 --> 01:07:44,559
for a reason because it really can be

1958
01:07:48,950 --> 01:07:46,799
very deceptive to contemporary things

1959
01:07:50,470 --> 01:07:48,960
like uh drone technology and

1960
01:07:51,670 --> 01:07:50,480
off-the-shelf technology that people

1961
01:07:54,150 --> 01:07:51,680
today have

1962
01:07:56,710 --> 01:07:54,160
that can uh fake you out to to other

1963
01:07:58,950 --> 01:07:56,720
things like cgi effects adobe after

1964
01:08:01,109 --> 01:07:58,960
effects and and the like that can create

1965
01:08:03,029 --> 01:08:01,119
really good looking videos whether

1966
01:08:06,230 --> 01:08:03,039
someone wanting to intentionally hoax or

1967
01:08:08,950 --> 01:08:06,240
a university student for his uh or her

1968
01:08:11,910 --> 01:08:08,960
uh senior project who wants to show off

1969
01:08:13,750 --> 01:08:11,920
yeah sure so in other words uh

1970
01:08:15,430 --> 01:08:13,760
the first chapter almost is a note of

1971
01:08:16,950 --> 01:08:15,440
caution before i

1972
01:08:18,789 --> 01:08:16,960
and then actually what that chapter does

1973
01:08:20,789 --> 01:08:18,799
is it summarizes the rest of the book so

1974
01:08:22,550 --> 01:08:20,799
it's almost like an introduction how do

1975
01:08:23,590 --> 01:08:22,560
you explain

1976
01:08:25,189 --> 01:08:23,600
the

1977
01:08:27,749 --> 01:08:25,199
transition

1978
01:08:32,070 --> 01:08:27,759
from 1947

1979
01:08:33,590 --> 01:08:32,080
1952 to 1955 1960 the the different

1980
01:08:34,550 --> 01:08:33,600
types

1981
01:08:36,870 --> 01:08:34,560
of

1982
01:08:38,630 --> 01:08:36,880
sightings and i'm referring to you know

1983
01:08:40,870 --> 01:08:38,640
the classic

1984
01:08:43,910 --> 01:08:40,880
saucer-shaped dome

1985
01:08:45,510 --> 01:08:43,920
craft you know all the way up to today

1986
01:08:47,829 --> 01:08:45,520
where we're into this black triangle

1987
01:08:49,430 --> 01:08:47,839
thing for the last 15 or 20 years right

1988
01:08:51,749 --> 01:08:49,440
how do you explain that because

1989
01:08:53,510 --> 01:08:51,759
everybody's seeing what they're seeing

1990
01:08:55,990 --> 01:08:53,520
you know so what i mean what's your

1991
01:08:57,590 --> 01:08:56,000
assessment of that why do you think uh

1992
01:08:58,950 --> 01:08:57,600
the the change

1993
01:09:00,630 --> 01:08:58,960
uh

1994
01:09:02,229 --> 01:09:00,640
well part of it is oh it actually just

1995
01:09:03,749 --> 01:09:02,239
to finish up the last thing i said even

1996
01:09:05,269 --> 01:09:03,759
though there's a lot of explained ufos

1997
01:09:07,430 --> 01:09:05,279
there's still a lot of unexplained ones

1998
01:09:09,110 --> 01:09:07,440
i just want to leave

1999
01:09:10,789 --> 01:09:09,120
in terms of the development of the

2000
01:09:12,870 --> 01:09:10,799
sightings themselves yes you have you

2001
01:09:15,349 --> 01:09:12,880
have saucer-shaped objects that are seen

2002
01:09:16,789 --> 01:09:15,359
from even before 1947. one of the things

2003
01:09:19,829 --> 01:09:16,799
that i um

2004
01:09:21,829 --> 01:09:19,839
i bring out is a case that i found from

2005
01:09:23,829 --> 01:09:21,839
the canadian northwest territories in

2006
01:09:27,030 --> 01:09:23,839
1936

2007
01:09:29,189 --> 01:09:27,040
desolate area very reliable uh testimony

2008
01:09:30,390 --> 01:09:29,199
by a gentleman who wrote his uh

2009
01:09:31,590 --> 01:09:30,400
his record down for the canadian

2010
01:09:33,349 --> 01:09:31,600
government

2011
01:09:35,269 --> 01:09:33,359
of an object that was

2012
01:09:38,390 --> 01:09:35,279
slightly oblong shaped directly above

2013
01:09:40,950 --> 01:09:38,400
him in the middle of nowhere nowhere

2014
01:09:44,390 --> 01:09:40,960
and it turned and it shot off like a

2015
01:09:46,709 --> 01:09:44,400
bullet to the horizon within moments

2016
01:09:48,550 --> 01:09:46,719
who who's operating that no we don't

2017
01:09:50,709 --> 01:09:48,560
it's not german technology up there in

2018
01:09:52,789 --> 01:09:50,719
1936 not a chance

2019
01:09:55,189 --> 01:09:52,799
uh what you see are

2020
01:09:57,590 --> 01:09:55,199
yes disc shaped and also oblong

2021
01:10:00,310 --> 01:09:57,600
cigar-shaped objects being reported

2022
01:10:02,149 --> 01:10:00,320
through the 20th century

2023
01:10:04,149 --> 01:10:02,159
through the second world war through the

2024
01:10:07,189 --> 01:10:04,159
post-war period

2025
01:10:08,709 --> 01:10:07,199
and and to today that those have not

2026
01:10:10,790 --> 01:10:08,719
stopped

2027
01:10:12,950 --> 01:10:10,800
you have other types of sightings

2028
01:10:13,750 --> 01:10:12,960
the triangles that you talk about have

2029
01:10:15,189 --> 01:10:13,760
been

2030
01:10:17,030 --> 01:10:15,199
noted for

2031
01:10:19,590 --> 01:10:17,040
actually more than 15 that we've been

2032
01:10:23,270 --> 01:10:19,600
talking about them since

2033
01:10:25,270 --> 01:10:23,280
belgium in 1990 1989 and 90. so that's

2034
01:10:27,189 --> 01:10:25,280
about almost 25 years

2035
01:10:28,950 --> 01:10:27,199
but in fact triangular ufo sightings

2036
01:10:31,030 --> 01:10:28,960
have been reliably reported for much

2037
01:10:33,750 --> 01:10:31,040
much longer than that in fact i i'm uh

2038
01:10:34,870 --> 01:10:33,760
i'm a publisher i'm a publisher of like

2039
01:10:36,229 --> 01:10:34,880
my small little publishing company

2040
01:10:37,510 --> 01:10:36,239
richard allen press and one of the books

2041
01:10:39,990 --> 01:10:37,520
that i published a year ago is called

2042
01:10:41,030 --> 01:10:40,000
triangular ufos by a fellow named david

2043
01:10:43,430 --> 01:10:41,040
marler

2044
01:10:45,270 --> 01:10:43,440
who did a fantastic research and shows i

2045
01:10:47,110 --> 01:10:45,280
think very persuasively this goes back

2046
01:10:49,910 --> 01:10:47,120
through a large portion of the 20th

2047
01:10:52,709 --> 01:10:49,920
century who's making these triangles i

2048
01:10:56,149 --> 01:10:52,719
think i think the u.s

2049
01:10:58,229 --> 01:10:56,159
military community is making some of

2050
01:11:00,310 --> 01:10:58,239
those triangles i think we have been

2051
01:11:02,790 --> 01:11:00,320
making some of them for the past maybe

2052
01:11:04,229 --> 01:11:02,800
generation or so

2053
01:11:06,310 --> 01:11:04,239
there was a journalist named james

2054
01:11:08,390 --> 01:11:06,320
goodall who did a lot of investigation

2055
01:11:09,750 --> 01:11:08,400
of area 51 and that whole area back in

2056
01:11:11,350 --> 01:11:09,760
the 80s

2057
01:11:13,669 --> 01:11:11,360
and

2058
01:11:15,350 --> 01:11:13,679
one of this is even before bob lazar

2059
01:11:17,270 --> 01:11:15,360
became known

2060
01:11:19,030 --> 01:11:17,280
a number of good all sources made it

2061
01:11:19,990 --> 01:11:19,040
clear to him in his estimation that the

2062
01:11:21,430 --> 01:11:20,000
us

2063
01:11:24,310 --> 01:11:21,440
had a couple of

2064
01:11:25,750 --> 01:11:24,320
very classified highly classified

2065
01:11:28,149 --> 01:11:25,760
flying triangles that they were

2066
01:11:29,270 --> 01:11:28,159
operating this is in the mid 80s

2067
01:11:31,030 --> 01:11:29,280
and the other thing that one of

2068
01:11:33,590 --> 01:11:31,040
goodall's people said to him

2069
01:11:35,510 --> 01:11:33,600
is he almost a direct quote we have

2070
01:11:38,149 --> 01:11:35,520
things in the nevada desert that would

2071
01:11:39,669 --> 01:11:38,159
make george lucas envious it's such a

2072
01:11:40,390 --> 01:11:39,679
great quote right

2073
01:11:42,229 --> 01:11:40,400
now

2074
01:11:46,070 --> 01:11:42,239
i want to reach back a little bit and

2075
01:11:48,950 --> 01:11:46,080
and get to the airship craze to that uh

2076
01:11:51,590 --> 01:11:48,960
at the turn of the century and uh i had

2077
01:11:52,950 --> 01:11:51,600
jerome clark on uh last month and we

2078
01:11:54,550 --> 01:11:52,960
talked about this quite a bit i'm

2079
01:11:57,510 --> 01:11:54,560
fascinated with it

2080
01:11:59,750 --> 01:11:57,520
and the reason why for me uh the

2081
01:12:02,070 --> 01:11:59,760
fascination is there is today we have

2082
01:12:04,630 --> 01:12:02,080
the internet we have youtube and you

2083
01:12:07,350 --> 01:12:04,640
know 50 years ago we had cameras and 40

2084
01:12:09,910 --> 01:12:07,360
years ago and and movie but

2085
01:12:12,870 --> 01:12:09,920
um we didn't have that in 1890 and what

2086
01:12:16,390 --> 01:12:12,880
we didn't have in 1890 were telephone we

2087
01:12:19,669 --> 01:12:16,400
had morse code and and barely even that

2088
01:12:21,110 --> 01:12:19,679
right okay so the communication between

2089
01:12:23,910 --> 01:12:21,120
cities

2090
01:12:27,750 --> 01:12:23,920
uh took days if not weeks because that

2091
01:12:29,110 --> 01:12:27,760
communication was via train or horseback

2092
01:12:32,310 --> 01:12:29,120
okay

2093
01:12:33,910 --> 01:12:32,320
so but but what they were seeing was a

2094
01:12:36,470 --> 01:12:33,920
consistent

2095
01:12:39,590 --> 01:12:36,480
you know ship in the air and and their

2096
01:12:42,149 --> 01:12:39,600
descriptions right but yet

2097
01:12:43,669 --> 01:12:42,159
nothing was really confirmed and my

2098
01:12:46,870 --> 01:12:43,679
point is this

2099
01:12:48,390 --> 01:12:46,880
what is it that they were seeing i that

2100
01:12:51,030 --> 01:12:48,400
because something was there and they

2101
01:12:53,669 --> 01:12:51,040
didn't have a reference to describe

2102
01:12:56,390 --> 01:12:53,679
anything you know compare it to

2103
01:12:58,470 --> 01:12:56,400
what what was it that went on in 1890

2104
01:13:00,630 --> 01:12:58,480
1895

2105
01:13:03,350 --> 01:13:00,640
yeah what they saw it started in the

2106
01:13:05,189 --> 01:13:03,360
fall of 1896 i believe sacramento is

2107
01:13:06,790 --> 01:13:05,199
where it started and it and it moved

2108
01:13:08,550 --> 01:13:06,800
east uh

2109
01:13:10,870 --> 01:13:08,560
through the winter and spring it was

2110
01:13:12,790 --> 01:13:10,880
seen over chicago in the spring of 97

2111
01:13:16,550 --> 01:13:12,800
there was a case in texas that jim mars

2112
01:13:20,390 --> 01:13:19,030
so what was it well

2113
01:13:24,149 --> 01:13:20,400
look i'm not going to tell you that i

2114
01:13:26,550 --> 01:13:24,159
know what it was um i can i can say that

2115
01:13:28,229 --> 01:13:26,560
i believe that this was not an illusory

2116
01:13:30,149 --> 01:13:28,239
phenomenon i i would imagine jerome

2117
01:13:32,310 --> 01:13:30,159
clark who studied this a lot probably

2118
01:13:34,070 --> 01:13:32,320
said the same thing but really even

2119
01:13:36,149 --> 01:13:34,080
nobody truly knows that you have you

2120
01:13:38,630 --> 01:13:36,159
have the case made that

2121
01:13:40,390 --> 01:13:38,640
uh some form of uh hysteria combined

2122
01:13:41,910 --> 01:13:40,400
with pranks there were pranks that were

2123
01:13:43,270 --> 01:13:41,920
mixed into this there were a lot of uh

2124
01:13:45,430 --> 01:13:43,280
stories of

2125
01:13:47,110 --> 01:13:45,440
uh even back then that were clearly made

2126
01:13:48,950 --> 01:13:47,120
up stuff

2127
01:13:50,870 --> 01:13:48,960
on the other hand there were enough

2128
01:13:52,790 --> 01:13:50,880
serious accounts

2129
01:13:54,149 --> 01:13:52,800
that you have to think people were

2130
01:13:56,229 --> 01:13:54,159
seeing something and that's my own

2131
01:13:57,510 --> 01:13:56,239
conclusion so who was it what was behind

2132
01:13:59,030 --> 01:13:57,520
it

2133
01:14:02,149 --> 01:13:59,040
you have really two conclusions one is

2134
01:14:04,310 --> 01:14:02,159
that there was a very advanced

2135
01:14:05,830 --> 01:14:04,320
and still unknown group of american

2136
01:14:09,510 --> 01:14:05,840
inventors

2137
01:14:10,790 --> 01:14:09,520
who were a decade or more ahead of the

2138
01:14:12,229 --> 01:14:10,800
rest of the world

2139
01:14:13,750 --> 01:14:12,239
in terms of developing these things you

2140
01:14:15,510 --> 01:14:13,760
know the zeppelin

2141
01:14:17,510 --> 01:14:15,520
which was the first airship that

2142
01:14:19,750 --> 01:14:17,520
actually was practical

2143
01:14:21,510 --> 01:14:19,760
uh didn't didn't first fly until i think

2144
01:14:24,390 --> 01:14:21,520
1903.

2145
01:14:26,470 --> 01:14:24,400
um in europe that the best airships

2146
01:14:28,149 --> 01:14:26,480
in the 1890s could go maybe like a

2147
01:14:30,229 --> 01:14:28,159
couple of miles and you couldn't

2148
01:14:33,030 --> 01:14:30,239
navigate them that's right

2149
01:14:34,470 --> 01:14:33,040
so they were not effective and uh people

2150
01:14:36,390 --> 01:14:34,480
were still getting killed and then it

2151
01:14:37,990 --> 01:14:36,400
was very unsafe

2152
01:14:40,550 --> 01:14:38,000
so to to say

2153
01:14:42,229 --> 01:14:40,560
that in america ten fully ten years

2154
01:14:43,750 --> 01:14:42,239
before you've got these airships that

2155
01:14:44,790 --> 01:14:43,760
can basically go across the country

2156
01:14:49,030 --> 01:14:44,800
that's

2157
01:14:49,990 --> 01:14:49,040
no aviation historian has ever supported

2158
01:14:52,229 --> 01:14:50,000
that ever

2159
01:14:53,189 --> 01:14:52,239
and and and my point being that there

2160
01:14:55,110 --> 01:14:53,199
was such

2161
01:14:56,950 --> 01:14:55,120
vast distances

2162
01:14:59,430 --> 01:14:56,960
and time because you have to consider

2163
01:15:02,709 --> 01:14:59,440
time we need to talk distance between

2164
01:15:05,270 --> 01:15:02,719
the gulf of mexico and iowa new york and

2165
01:15:07,350 --> 01:15:05,280
exactly and uh

2166
01:15:10,070 --> 01:15:07,360
california that

2167
01:15:11,350 --> 01:15:10,080
how are the descriptions the same

2168
01:15:13,110 --> 01:15:11,360
because they're not talking to each

2169
01:15:15,189 --> 01:15:13,120
other over the phone

2170
01:15:17,110 --> 01:15:15,199
and that's and that's my point

2171
01:15:19,510 --> 01:15:17,120
no i i think that there is a real core

2172
01:15:22,229 --> 01:15:19,520
reality there and the other possibility

2173
01:15:24,709 --> 01:15:22,239
is that there was an advanced group

2174
01:15:26,950 --> 01:15:24,719
human or otherwise but maybe maybe not

2175
01:15:29,030 --> 01:15:26,960
fully of our civilization

2176
01:15:30,390 --> 01:15:29,040
that um what were they doing were they

2177
01:15:32,149 --> 01:15:30,400
tweaking us a little bit were they

2178
01:15:34,149 --> 01:15:32,159
giving us a little bit of an example of

2179
01:15:35,669 --> 01:15:34,159
what we can do what's possible

2180
01:15:37,430 --> 01:15:35,679
here try this

2181
01:15:39,590 --> 01:15:37,440
and have they been doing that all along

2182
01:15:41,750 --> 01:15:39,600
i'm only theorizing i don't really know

2183
01:15:44,870 --> 01:15:41,760
but when you're talking about the flying

2184
01:15:46,470 --> 01:15:44,880
saucers of the 40s and 50s was that also

2185
01:15:48,310 --> 01:15:46,480
an attempt to say

2186
01:15:49,990 --> 01:15:48,320
take a look at this technology this is

2187
01:15:52,390 --> 01:15:50,000
actually within your grasp give it a

2188
01:15:54,310 --> 01:15:52,400
shot and and what i'm trying to do i'm

2189
01:15:55,750 --> 01:15:54,320
tying it all together just like the

2190
01:15:57,430 --> 01:15:55,760
airship

2191
01:15:59,910 --> 01:15:57,440
craze that went down everybody was

2192
01:16:01,750 --> 01:15:59,920
seeing the same thing the descriptions

2193
01:16:03,669 --> 01:16:01,760
were the same and that's what was going

2194
01:16:06,470 --> 01:16:03,679
on in the 50s that's what was going on

2195
01:16:08,229 --> 01:16:06,480
in the 60s you didn't have these vast

2196
01:16:10,630 --> 01:16:08,239
differences of what they were seeing in

2197
01:16:11,830 --> 01:16:10,640
the sky they were seeing the same thing

2198
01:16:13,669 --> 01:16:11,840
right

2199
01:16:16,149 --> 01:16:13,679
so i think um

2200
01:16:18,470 --> 01:16:16,159
i'm really glad you asked this question

2201
01:16:21,910 --> 01:16:18,480
what are we really talking about

2202
01:16:25,110 --> 01:16:21,920
it's either that the ufo phenomenon is

2203
01:16:27,110 --> 01:16:25,120
solely a reflection of our own mind

2204
01:16:29,189 --> 01:16:27,120
and somehow we are able to project a

2205
01:16:31,270 --> 01:16:29,199
reality out there

2206
01:16:32,709 --> 01:16:31,280
in a way that our minds are able to to

2207
01:16:35,030 --> 01:16:32,719
create this

2208
01:16:37,910 --> 01:16:35,040
or that there's an intelligence in a

2209
01:16:39,430 --> 01:16:37,920
society beyond what we have here

2210
01:16:41,270 --> 01:16:39,440
that is

2211
01:16:43,430 --> 01:16:41,280
tweaking us and guiding us

2212
01:16:45,270 --> 01:16:43,440
giving little hints here and there

2213
01:16:46,310 --> 01:16:45,280
maybe maybe there's a third answer but i

2214
01:16:48,630 --> 01:16:46,320
think those are those are two real

2215
01:16:52,149 --> 01:16:48,640
possibilities i'm gonna let's get into

2216
01:16:53,110 --> 01:16:52,159
my favorite subject ancient aliens ah

2217
01:16:54,229 --> 01:16:53,120
yes

2218
01:16:56,310 --> 01:16:54,239
now

2219
01:16:58,470 --> 01:16:56,320
uh and i'm not talking about the tv show

2220
01:17:00,790 --> 01:16:58,480
i'm talking about the reality

2221
01:17:02,470 --> 01:17:00,800
um

2222
01:17:03,430 --> 01:17:02,480
earth is four and a half billion years

2223
01:17:05,590 --> 01:17:03,440
old

2224
01:17:07,510 --> 01:17:05,600
give or take a billion years

2225
01:17:10,709 --> 01:17:07,520
in my estimation

2226
01:17:12,390 --> 01:17:10,719
somebody did a drive by here

2227
01:17:13,910 --> 01:17:12,400
at least once

2228
01:17:16,709 --> 01:17:13,920
cruised by

2229
01:17:19,750 --> 01:17:16,719
and to think that that didn't happen i

2230
01:17:21,910 --> 01:17:19,760
think is extremely naive and and

2231
01:17:23,510 --> 01:17:21,920
to the point of just you're in denial it

2232
01:17:25,430 --> 01:17:23,520
has to have happened

2233
01:17:28,870 --> 01:17:25,440
and i look at it

2234
01:17:31,110 --> 01:17:28,880
uh a little more sincerely

2235
01:17:33,110 --> 01:17:31,120
when the the classic pictures that we

2236
01:17:34,470 --> 01:17:33,120
have of planet earth right now like from

2237
01:17:37,430 --> 01:17:34,480
the moon you look back it's the blue

2238
01:17:40,950 --> 01:17:37,440
planet but the reality is this thing is

2239
01:17:43,350 --> 01:17:40,960
lit up like a freeway at night it's lit

2240
01:17:45,430 --> 01:17:43,360
up like manhattan when you cruise by

2241
01:17:48,390 --> 01:17:45,440
planet earth now and look at it

2242
01:17:52,149 --> 01:17:48,400
civilization intelligence things are

2243
01:17:53,990 --> 01:17:52,159
going on here and to think that

2244
01:17:56,390 --> 01:17:54,000
somebody else out there doesn't know

2245
01:17:58,550 --> 01:17:56,400
when we're looking the exact same way in

2246
01:18:00,630 --> 01:17:58,560
the opposite direction we're searching

2247
01:18:03,430 --> 01:18:00,640
right for that exact thing that is

2248
01:18:06,149 --> 01:18:03,440
sitting here and is we are a beacon and

2249
01:18:08,630 --> 01:18:06,159
are very easy to find i think you're

2250
01:18:10,149 --> 01:18:08,640
right um i think that even before we

2251
01:18:12,390 --> 01:18:10,159
developed civilization i think even

2252
01:18:14,070 --> 01:18:12,400
before human beings were walking on this

2253
01:18:16,149 --> 01:18:14,080
planet that this would be a place of

2254
01:18:17,830 --> 01:18:16,159
great interest i mean

2255
01:18:19,990 --> 01:18:17,840
lots of an abundance of life you've got

2256
01:18:21,750 --> 01:18:20,000
all kinds of unique forms of dna if

2257
01:18:23,669 --> 01:18:21,760
you're sophisticated enough you know you

2258
01:18:25,350 --> 01:18:23,679
know how to mess with dna this would be

2259
01:18:27,510 --> 01:18:25,360
a great place to go

2260
01:18:29,030 --> 01:18:27,520
um and there's probably a lot of other

2261
01:18:30,390 --> 01:18:29,040
things of interest that could that could

2262
01:18:32,229 --> 01:18:30,400
be um

2263
01:18:33,189 --> 01:18:32,239
great for anyone that's interested in

2264
01:18:35,270 --> 01:18:33,199
life

2265
01:18:38,310 --> 01:18:35,280
so i think yes earth would be of

2266
01:18:40,229 --> 01:18:38,320
interest and um and i think human beings

2267
01:18:42,470 --> 01:18:40,239
would be of great interest you know it's

2268
01:18:43,750 --> 01:18:42,480
easy to denigrate ourselves

2269
01:18:45,270 --> 01:18:43,760
but we're

2270
01:18:47,430 --> 01:18:45,280
when you step back and look at us we're

2271
01:18:48,870 --> 01:18:47,440
really fascinating creatures we have we

2272
01:18:51,030 --> 01:18:48,880
have significant intelligence we have

2273
01:18:53,430 --> 01:18:51,040
enough intelligence that we can conceive

2274
01:18:57,270 --> 01:18:53,440
of some incredible things

2275
01:18:59,189 --> 01:18:57,280
and we also have a an ability i think

2276
01:19:01,189 --> 01:18:59,199
to go beyond the senses that we're

2277
01:19:02,550 --> 01:19:01,199
accustomed to having and i think maybe

2278
01:19:04,470 --> 01:19:02,560
other creatures would be aware of that

2279
01:19:05,830 --> 01:19:04,480
as well so i think we'd be of interest

2280
01:19:08,070 --> 01:19:05,840
to them

2281
01:19:10,070 --> 01:19:08,080
and when you go when i talk about

2282
01:19:11,669 --> 01:19:10,080
ancient aliens and i did use that title

2283
01:19:14,390 --> 01:19:11,679
for the chapters because i thought why

2284
01:19:16,149 --> 01:19:14,400
not right but

2285
01:19:19,270 --> 01:19:16,159
you know we have to look at what is the

2286
01:19:20,149 --> 01:19:19,280
evidence that is available to us to um

2287
01:19:22,950 --> 01:19:20,159
to

2288
01:19:24,790 --> 01:19:22,960
promote this argument it is it's logical

2289
01:19:26,310 --> 01:19:24,800
to us to assume that something like this

2290
01:19:27,669 --> 01:19:26,320
happened i think it did

2291
01:19:30,630 --> 01:19:27,679
also

2292
01:19:33,030 --> 01:19:30,640
quality of the evidence one of my

2293
01:19:35,430 --> 01:19:33,040
quibbles or beefs with uh

2294
01:19:37,030 --> 01:19:35,440
some of the ancient alien ideas is that

2295
01:19:39,430 --> 01:19:37,040
i'm just not impressed by the quality of

2296
01:19:41,030 --> 01:19:39,440
some of the evidence that is put forward

2297
01:19:42,709 --> 01:19:41,040
for some of these arguments on the other

2298
01:19:45,270 --> 01:19:42,719
hand i'm i am impressed by other

2299
01:19:47,110 --> 01:19:45,280
arguments for it and give me one one

2300
01:19:49,270 --> 01:19:47,120
point

2301
01:19:51,830 --> 01:19:49,280
well one there's something that stands

2302
01:19:53,350 --> 01:19:51,840
out as far as i've got a few but uh yeah

2303
01:19:55,270 --> 01:19:53,360
i'm so do i well let's talk about

2304
01:19:57,830 --> 01:19:55,280
pyramids and we can start with the great

2305
01:19:59,350 --> 01:19:57,840
paramedic giza go right there and we can

2306
01:20:02,070 --> 01:19:59,360
go from there to the existence that

2307
01:20:04,870 --> 01:20:02,080
we're now really just in the last decade

2308
01:20:06,790 --> 01:20:04,880
finally appreciating is the expanse of

2309
01:20:08,390 --> 01:20:06,800
pyramids around the world

2310
01:20:10,229 --> 01:20:08,400
um i think that that does mean something

2311
01:20:12,070 --> 01:20:10,239
when i look at the great pyramid i i

2312
01:20:14,950 --> 01:20:12,080
have a personal fascination for that and

2313
01:20:17,750 --> 01:20:14,960
i'm sure a lot of people here do as well

2314
01:20:19,590 --> 01:20:17,760
and um in my own readings it just

2315
01:20:21,189 --> 01:20:19,600
it's a mind-blowing experience when you

2316
01:20:23,350 --> 01:20:21,199
look at the mathematics the engineering

2317
01:20:25,270 --> 01:20:23,360
the sheer

2318
01:20:26,950 --> 01:20:25,280
magnitude of what that

2319
01:20:30,709 --> 01:20:26,960
object is in particular when it was

2320
01:20:33,270 --> 01:20:30,719
originally con built with um

2321
01:20:34,790 --> 01:20:33,280
with um

2322
01:20:36,790 --> 01:20:34,800
yeah um

2323
01:20:38,470 --> 01:20:36,800
what's the that not i was just gonna say

2324
01:20:39,990 --> 01:20:38,480
ivory but it's white it's uh it's

2325
01:20:41,910 --> 01:20:40,000
limestone covered

2326
01:20:43,830 --> 01:20:41,920
yes yes i mean it had to look just like

2327
01:20:45,270 --> 01:20:43,840
an unbelievable that limestone stayed

2328
01:20:46,870 --> 01:20:45,280
until an earthquake knocked it off in

2329
01:20:48,470 --> 01:20:46,880
the i think the 10th or 11th century and

2330
01:20:50,229 --> 01:20:48,480
they built the city of cairo with that

2331
01:20:52,790 --> 01:20:50,239
yeah

2332
01:20:54,870 --> 01:20:52,800
so the construction of this is to say

2333
01:20:56,709 --> 01:20:54,880
off the charts doesn't do it justice and

2334
01:20:59,030 --> 01:20:56,719
uh it doesn't also make any sense to me

2335
01:21:01,270 --> 01:20:59,040
that we're talking 2500 bc egypt so

2336
01:21:02,390 --> 01:21:01,280
there's a there's a question there

2337
01:21:03,830 --> 01:21:02,400
and then

2338
01:21:06,149 --> 01:21:03,840
and you can look at other aspects of

2339
01:21:07,910 --> 01:21:06,159
that pyramid and you can you can make a

2340
01:21:10,229 --> 01:21:07,920
strong argument that the creators of

2341
01:21:11,910 --> 01:21:10,239
that pyramid knew the earth was a sphere

2342
01:21:13,430 --> 01:21:11,920
that's right that they knew that the

2343
01:21:15,510 --> 01:21:13,440
diameter and circumference of the earth

2344
01:21:17,189 --> 01:21:15,520
and and again this is a complex

2345
01:21:19,270 --> 01:21:17,199
mathematical issue but it all really

2346
01:21:21,110 --> 01:21:19,280
makes perfect sense when you study it

2347
01:21:23,350 --> 01:21:21,120
so there's an intelligence there that is

2348
01:21:25,430 --> 01:21:23,360
vastly beyond anything that the ancient

2349
01:21:27,270 --> 01:21:25,440
world is supposed to have had one of the

2350
01:21:29,510 --> 01:21:27,280
things and i just had

2351
01:21:31,990 --> 01:21:29,520
uh robert shock on the show uh last

2352
01:21:33,350 --> 01:21:32,000
friday and it was one of the best

2353
01:21:35,830 --> 01:21:33,360
experiences

2354
01:21:37,990 --> 01:21:35,840
and and i posed this question to him and

2355
01:21:39,590 --> 01:21:38,000
i and i i'll hit you with it right now

2356
01:21:42,550 --> 01:21:39,600
which is this

2357
01:21:45,510 --> 01:21:42,560
the the orthodoxy archaeologists out

2358
01:21:47,910 --> 01:21:45,520
there and egyptologists too as well

2359
01:21:49,270 --> 01:21:47,920
want us to swallow this pill and this is

2360
01:21:54,950 --> 01:21:49,280
the pill

2361
01:21:57,830 --> 01:21:54,960
that between 10 000 bc and 2500 bc we

2362
01:22:00,470 --> 01:21:57,840
were stupid as rocks

2363
01:22:03,030 --> 01:22:00,480
okay we're walking around with with with

2364
01:22:05,669 --> 01:22:03,040
skins on and a club and we're forging

2365
01:22:07,430 --> 01:22:05,679
for seeds in the desert

2366
01:22:09,510 --> 01:22:07,440
you know on a daily basis no

2367
01:22:12,310 --> 01:22:09,520
organization no civilization no farms

2368
01:22:13,350 --> 01:22:12,320
know nothing and then suddenly

2369
01:22:15,669 --> 01:22:13,360
bing

2370
01:22:17,350 --> 01:22:15,679
we built the pyramids and we cross it's

2371
01:22:19,189 --> 01:22:17,360
like one day

2372
01:22:22,229 --> 01:22:19,199
we had the intelligence and we knew what

2373
01:22:25,110 --> 01:22:22,239
pie was the circumference of the earth

2374
01:22:26,470 --> 01:22:25,120
true north yeah mathematics

2375
01:22:29,910 --> 01:22:26,480
language

2376
01:22:33,030 --> 01:22:29,920
uh religion structure social structure

2377
01:22:34,790 --> 01:22:33,040
farming it all happened overnight and

2378
01:22:36,870 --> 01:22:34,800
that's where i have a problem and i have

2379
01:22:38,790 --> 01:22:36,880
a big problem with it yeah i'm a little

2380
01:22:40,470 --> 01:22:38,800
more on the fence as to how how that

2381
01:22:42,149 --> 01:22:40,480
happened um

2382
01:22:43,750 --> 01:22:42,159
did it was it a natural development or

2383
01:22:46,229 --> 01:22:43,760
not you have the city of goblet

2384
01:22:49,270 --> 01:22:46,239
tepe which is actually uh pretty darn

2385
01:22:51,510 --> 01:22:49,280
old 12 000 years um

2386
01:22:52,550 --> 01:22:51,520
and a lot of other uh ancient cities

2387
01:22:54,390 --> 01:22:52,560
jericho

2388
01:22:55,750 --> 01:22:54,400
nearly as old and a few others that are

2389
01:22:57,430 --> 01:22:55,760
um

2390
01:22:59,750 --> 01:22:57,440
you know that you you can easily argue

2391
01:23:01,430 --> 01:22:59,760
this is this is human development you

2392
01:23:02,950 --> 01:23:01,440
might make the argument

2393
01:23:04,470 --> 01:23:02,960
i don't really know what i would say is

2394
01:23:06,149 --> 01:23:04,480
what i'd like to say is that we have a

2395
01:23:08,470 --> 01:23:06,159
hole in our ancient history that there

2396
01:23:10,550 --> 01:23:08,480
is i think very strong reason to argue

2397
01:23:13,110 --> 01:23:10,560
that there were advanced intelligence

2398
01:23:14,950 --> 01:23:13,120
it's like it's like that big yeah

2399
01:23:16,790 --> 01:23:14,960
and argument and then the pyramids

2400
01:23:18,550 --> 01:23:16,800
globally by the way which we didn't

2401
01:23:19,990 --> 01:23:18,560
really get into and i'm not as expert as

2402
01:23:22,229 --> 01:23:20,000
some other people but i do think that

2403
01:23:23,510 --> 01:23:22,239
it's it's a good

2404
01:23:24,709 --> 01:23:23,520
starting point for an argument to look

2405
01:23:26,790 --> 01:23:24,719
at the relationship of all of these

2406
01:23:27,990 --> 01:23:26,800
pyramids around the world do you think

2407
01:23:30,229 --> 01:23:28,000
that there might have been some

2408
01:23:32,790 --> 01:23:30,239
intervention

2409
01:23:35,030 --> 01:23:32,800
i think i think so um i think even when

2410
01:23:37,189 --> 01:23:35,040
you look at us on an evolutionary scale

2411
01:23:39,270 --> 01:23:37,199
human evolution proceeded so

2412
01:23:40,870 --> 01:23:39,280
unbelievably rapidly

2413
01:23:42,950 --> 01:23:40,880
think about the shark

2414
01:23:44,629 --> 01:23:42,960
shark is the same as it was you know 50

2415
01:23:47,189 --> 01:23:44,639
plus million years ago

2416
01:23:50,629 --> 01:23:47,199
human beings didn't exist as a as

2417
01:23:52,790 --> 01:23:50,639
hominids did not exist until you know

2418
01:23:54,310 --> 01:23:52,800
four or five million years ago

2419
01:23:55,669 --> 01:23:54,320
when we were there were little chimps

2420
01:23:58,310 --> 01:23:55,679
that could stand up

2421
01:24:01,430 --> 01:23:58,320
basically and in a room really an

2422
01:24:03,510 --> 01:24:01,440
incredibly short period of time

2423
01:24:05,669 --> 01:24:03,520
as far as we can tell if we you know

2424
01:24:08,470 --> 01:24:05,679
evolutionists that

2425
01:24:10,470 --> 01:24:08,480
change was really quite dramatic

2426
01:24:12,390 --> 01:24:10,480
even a simple one million years ago with

2427
01:24:15,030 --> 01:24:12,400
uh like homo erectus and those types of

2428
01:24:16,470 --> 01:24:15,040
creatures that's

2429
01:24:18,870 --> 01:24:16,480
rapid development

2430
01:24:21,030 --> 01:24:18,880
in evolutionary geologic history so

2431
01:24:23,350 --> 01:24:21,040
where we tweaked i had an old friend uh

2432
01:24:25,030 --> 01:24:23,360
recently died a woman in rochester new

2433
01:24:26,390 --> 01:24:25,040
york where i live who studied this in

2434
01:24:27,830 --> 01:24:26,400
great detail her name was colleen

2435
01:24:31,030 --> 01:24:27,840
clements

2436
01:24:33,990 --> 01:24:31,040
she um looked at a lot of research in

2437
01:24:37,189 --> 01:24:34,000
human brain development in uh

2438
01:24:38,470 --> 01:24:37,199
from like 80 000 to like 50 000 years

2439
01:24:41,750 --> 01:24:38,480
ago

2440
01:24:43,590 --> 01:24:41,760
and what it looks like from her research

2441
01:24:46,790 --> 01:24:43,600
was that there was a

2442
01:24:49,510 --> 01:24:46,800
an outside uh input of intelligence or

2443
01:24:51,669 --> 01:24:49,520
outside input in brain capacity in

2444
01:24:53,110 --> 01:24:51,679
certain parts of our brain that

2445
01:24:54,629 --> 01:24:53,120
did not seem to come from like

2446
01:24:56,390 --> 01:24:54,639
neanderthal genes or any of the genes

2447
01:24:59,510 --> 01:24:56,400
that were identifiable her own

2448
01:25:01,189 --> 01:24:59,520
conclusion was that it was from beyond

2449
01:25:03,750 --> 01:25:01,199
it had to be tweaked

2450
01:25:06,229 --> 01:25:03,760
you know some somebody tweaked something

2451
01:25:07,990 --> 01:25:06,239
it happened too quickly to me it just

2452
01:25:10,070 --> 01:25:08,000
happened overnight there's no other

2453
01:25:12,790 --> 01:25:10,080
example of of the kind of evolution that

2454
01:25:14,550 --> 01:25:12,800
we have on this planet no none i mean

2455
01:25:15,990 --> 01:25:14,560
it's just unbelievably rapid so on that

2456
01:25:17,669 --> 01:25:16,000
basis you could think you know we might

2457
01:25:19,430 --> 01:25:17,679
have been messed with let's move on

2458
01:25:22,390 --> 01:25:19,440
enhanced let's move on to the next

2459
01:25:23,910 --> 01:25:22,400
chapter in your book and

2460
01:25:29,590 --> 01:25:23,920
ufos

2461
01:25:32,470 --> 01:25:29,600
yeah ufo secrecy and those who fought it

2462
01:25:32,480 --> 01:25:41,350
let it out let it out let it cough

2463
01:25:45,830 --> 01:25:43,270
something went down the wrong pipe

2464
01:25:47,110 --> 01:25:45,840
it's called live radio

2465
01:25:48,790 --> 01:25:47,120
that's the great thing about live radio

2466
01:25:50,629 --> 01:25:48,800
because there's the risk of hey not

2467
01:25:52,709 --> 01:25:50,639
knowing what's going to happen um

2468
01:25:55,350 --> 01:25:52,719
watching it well really quick so you do

2469
01:25:58,550 --> 01:25:55,360
a weekly radio show yes i do i have um

2470
01:26:00,709 --> 01:25:58,560
it's internet radio it's uh we have kg

2471
01:26:02,550 --> 01:26:00,719
ra radio and um

2472
01:26:04,550 --> 01:26:02,560
i have had uh the richard dolan show for

2473
01:26:06,070 --> 01:26:04,560
a couple of years i do it once a week

2474
01:26:09,030 --> 01:26:06,080
i call it my little tap dance for the

2475
01:26:10,790 --> 01:26:09,040
world i um initially started it out for

2476
01:26:12,709 --> 01:26:10,800
three hours

2477
01:26:14,950 --> 01:26:12,719
as a uh

2478
01:26:16,629 --> 01:26:14,960
just my own little my own i almost never

2479
01:26:18,310 --> 01:26:16,639
had guests you know it would just be me

2480
01:26:20,310 --> 01:26:18,320
going out there just talking for three

2481
01:26:21,990 --> 01:26:20,320
hours if you can put up with it

2482
01:26:23,590 --> 01:26:22,000
i eventually thought i'll start having

2483
01:26:25,110 --> 01:26:23,600
some guests on there but for me it was

2484
01:26:26,950 --> 01:26:25,120
almost like an ego thing i admit i

2485
01:26:29,030 --> 01:26:26,960
thought i'm gonna do this i'm gonna do

2486
01:26:31,430 --> 01:26:29,040
three hours i'm gonna do it every week

2487
01:26:32,790 --> 01:26:31,440
it's not easy no it's tough uh

2488
01:26:35,110 --> 01:26:32,800
fortunately it was just once a week but

2489
01:26:36,629 --> 01:26:35,120
i do not two hours um but i still will

2490
01:26:38,229 --> 01:26:36,639
often do them alone or i'll have some

2491
01:26:40,470 --> 01:26:38,239
guests from time to time we do three

2492
01:26:42,870 --> 01:26:40,480
hours live four nights a week that's a

2493
01:26:47,270 --> 01:26:42,880
lot of work that's a lot of work

2494
01:26:49,510 --> 01:26:47,280
we have a good team but but my point is

2495
01:26:51,830 --> 01:26:49,520
well but my point is uh you know you

2496
01:26:54,070 --> 01:26:51,840
make it really easy and the conversation

2497
01:26:55,830 --> 01:26:54,080
is smooth oh i'm glad no thank you so

2498
01:26:57,830 --> 01:26:55,840
let's get to uh

2499
01:26:59,750 --> 01:26:57,840
uh secrecy

2500
01:27:01,830 --> 01:26:59,760
well that chapter that's uh i think the

2501
01:27:03,990 --> 01:27:01,840
third chapter um

2502
01:27:05,510 --> 01:27:04,000
oh no that's the fourth it's basically

2503
01:27:06,550 --> 01:27:05,520
um

2504
01:27:09,030 --> 01:27:06,560
part of

2505
01:27:10,709 --> 01:27:09,040
it's it's two chapters at four and five

2506
01:27:12,470 --> 01:27:10,719
that really go together

2507
01:27:14,390 --> 01:27:12,480
ufo secrecy and then what i call the

2508
01:27:15,750 --> 01:27:14,400
breakaway civilization

2509
01:27:19,590 --> 01:27:15,760
and

2510
01:27:21,510 --> 01:27:19,600
secrecy particularly for a beginner if

2511
01:27:23,189 --> 01:27:21,520
someone is not familiar with the topic

2512
01:27:24,390 --> 01:27:23,199
of ufos that's one of the people i wrote

2513
01:27:26,790 --> 01:27:24,400
this book for

2514
01:27:28,229 --> 01:27:26,800
you have to go in by degrees in my

2515
01:27:29,350 --> 01:27:28,239
opinion

2516
01:27:31,270 --> 01:27:29,360
so that

2517
01:27:33,430 --> 01:27:31,280
there's phase one of the secrecy and and

2518
01:27:35,350 --> 01:27:33,440
for me that's simply trying to explain

2519
01:27:38,149 --> 01:27:35,360
to a reader

2520
01:27:40,070 --> 01:27:38,159
the basic narrative of

2521
01:27:41,910 --> 01:27:40,080
the air force cover-up the story of

2522
01:27:43,669 --> 01:27:41,920
project blue book this story of the

2523
01:27:45,669 --> 01:27:43,679
organization called nightcap which tried

2524
01:27:46,709 --> 01:27:45,679
to fight that secrecy and ultimately

2525
01:27:48,790 --> 01:27:46,719
failed

2526
01:27:50,950 --> 01:27:48,800
and um in other words the surface

2527
01:27:53,270 --> 01:27:50,960
history of the ufo

2528
01:27:55,750 --> 01:27:53,280
controversy and cover-up that

2529
01:27:57,990 --> 01:27:55,760
that we kind of know of

2530
01:28:00,229 --> 01:27:58,000
and then the next chapter takes the same

2531
01:28:02,229 --> 01:28:00,239
period of time and goes a layer deeper

2532
01:28:04,310 --> 01:28:02,239
and tries to do deeper analysis in

2533
01:28:06,629 --> 01:28:04,320
particular of

2534
01:28:08,870 --> 01:28:06,639
acquiring exotic technology through

2535
01:28:10,070 --> 01:28:08,880
crash retrievals and that chapter does

2536
01:28:12,229 --> 01:28:10,080
it

2537
01:28:14,070 --> 01:28:12,239
you know i really try to discuss what

2538
01:28:15,350 --> 01:28:14,080
crash retrieval stories seem to be

2539
01:28:17,510 --> 01:28:15,360
legitimate or at least may have some

2540
01:28:19,830 --> 01:28:17,520
legitimacy and then once you acknowledge

2541
01:28:21,430 --> 01:28:19,840
it you've got this technology

2542
01:28:23,189 --> 01:28:21,440
what are you going to do with it

2543
01:28:25,189 --> 01:28:23,199
what's the plan

2544
01:28:26,950 --> 01:28:25,199
and that's where i get into my idea of a

2545
01:28:29,510 --> 01:28:26,960
breakaway civilization i've talked about

2546
01:28:31,669 --> 01:28:29,520
this a number of years now

2547
01:28:33,189 --> 01:28:31,679
and that's really the kind of dual theme

2548
01:28:35,110 --> 01:28:33,199
of those two chapters they really go

2549
01:28:36,629 --> 01:28:35,120
together as i see it so you got the

2550
01:28:38,149 --> 01:28:36,639
surface history

2551
01:28:41,110 --> 01:28:38,159
you know how how did this whole thing

2552
01:28:43,830 --> 01:28:41,120
develop during the 40s and 50s and 60s

2553
01:28:47,270 --> 01:28:43,840
and then um how did the deep secrecy

2554
01:28:49,270 --> 01:28:47,280
evolve as well so i do those

2555
01:28:51,830 --> 01:28:49,280
i i would like to

2556
01:28:54,790 --> 01:28:51,840
we have the time i do want to touch upon

2557
01:28:56,629 --> 01:28:54,800
the breakaway civilization theory and

2558
01:28:58,310 --> 01:28:56,639
i forget the uh what's the british

2559
01:28:59,430 --> 01:28:58,320
television series

2560
01:29:02,390 --> 01:28:59,440
uh

2561
01:29:05,510 --> 01:29:03,990
alternatives yeah alternative three

2562
01:29:07,830 --> 01:29:05,520
alternative three which i happened to

2563
01:29:11,510 --> 01:29:07,840
watch uh last month

2564
01:29:14,229 --> 01:29:11,520
um and and i want to get to that but

2565
01:29:15,270 --> 01:29:14,239
project blue book

2566
01:29:17,830 --> 01:29:15,280
for

2567
01:29:20,390 --> 01:29:17,840
most of us here myself included uh we

2568
01:29:21,270 --> 01:29:20,400
grew up with that and we believed in it

2569
01:29:24,470 --> 01:29:21,280
and

2570
01:29:26,229 --> 01:29:24,480
wanted

2571
01:29:29,750 --> 01:29:26,239
i mean i believed in it wholeheartedly

2572
01:29:32,229 --> 01:29:29,760
right and now hindsight is

2573
01:29:34,310 --> 01:29:32,239
it's it's it's a [\h__\h] yeah yeah okay

2574
01:29:37,270 --> 01:29:34,320
now we can look back and now it just

2575
01:29:40,790 --> 01:29:37,280
leaves such a bad taste in my mouth

2576
01:29:44,070 --> 01:29:40,800
and i'm still looking for swamp gas

2577
01:29:45,350 --> 01:29:44,080
you know right now i i have i have as of

2578
01:29:48,390 --> 01:29:45,360
yet

2579
01:29:51,110 --> 01:29:48,400
to see my first swamp gas no me neither

2580
01:29:52,790 --> 01:29:51,120
okay i've never seen the swamp gas

2581
01:29:54,870 --> 01:29:52,800
make any effects

2582
01:29:56,470 --> 01:29:54,880
blue book is uh one of these things that

2583
01:29:58,229 --> 01:29:56,480
i think young readers probably don't

2584
01:29:59,750 --> 01:29:58,239
even care about project blue book that

2585
01:30:01,830 --> 01:29:59,760
seems like ancient history but it really

2586
01:30:04,950 --> 01:30:01,840
is important it's interesting

2587
01:30:07,910 --> 01:30:04,960
and um you know during the 1950s and 60s

2588
01:30:09,590 --> 01:30:07,920
that was the official government's

2589
01:30:10,550 --> 01:30:09,600
investigative i'm putting that in air

2590
01:30:13,030 --> 01:30:10,560
quotes

2591
01:30:15,030 --> 01:30:13,040
a group that studied ufos and it gets

2592
01:30:16,470 --> 01:30:15,040
air quotes because i mean blue book you

2593
01:30:18,229 --> 01:30:16,480
know for most of its time had like two

2594
01:30:19,110 --> 01:30:18,239
or three people in there how are they

2595
01:30:21,030 --> 01:30:19,120
supposed to be able to do these

2596
01:30:22,950 --> 01:30:21,040
investigations of course they couldn't

2597
01:30:24,790 --> 01:30:22,960
but what their job was to do wasn't to

2598
01:30:27,030 --> 01:30:24,800
investigate it was to

2599
01:30:29,910 --> 01:30:27,040
it was to

2600
01:30:32,790 --> 01:30:29,920
talk about the ufo topic as

2601
01:30:34,310 --> 01:30:32,800
solved to the public to put this topic

2602
01:30:36,390 --> 01:30:34,320
to sleep as much as possible they were

2603
01:30:37,910 --> 01:30:36,400
never really other than one brief year

2604
01:30:40,149 --> 01:30:37,920
in 1952

2605
01:30:43,030 --> 01:30:40,159
did they ever really truly do genuine

2606
01:30:45,430 --> 01:30:43,040
investigation exactly and so

2607
01:30:47,910 --> 01:30:45,440
would you ever pick it up today and look

2608
01:30:49,910 --> 01:30:47,920
at one of the investigated cases in

2609
01:30:52,550 --> 01:30:49,920
there and

2610
01:30:56,390 --> 01:30:52,560
treated as non-fiction

2611
01:30:58,870 --> 01:30:56,400
it treated as a seriously researched

2612
01:31:00,790 --> 01:30:58,880
incident you wouldn't would you no no i

2613
01:31:02,950 --> 01:31:00,800
mean some of the accounts in the blue

2614
01:31:04,390 --> 01:31:02,960
book files are really worth uh looking

2615
01:31:06,550 --> 01:31:04,400
into but certainly not for the

2616
01:31:08,629 --> 01:31:06,560
explanations no but that's that's and

2617
01:31:10,310 --> 01:31:08,639
that's exactly my point it's what's not

2618
01:31:12,470 --> 01:31:10,320
in blue book

2619
01:31:15,110 --> 01:31:12,480
that's the best part the ones that they

2620
01:31:18,149 --> 01:31:15,120
couldn't solve but as far as anything

2621
01:31:19,750 --> 01:31:18,159
with explanation in it today it's it's

2622
01:31:21,830 --> 01:31:19,760
nearly worthless

2623
01:31:24,390 --> 01:31:21,840
no i agree and uh what we know is that

2624
01:31:26,310 --> 01:31:24,400
from the night mid 1950s on here's

2625
01:31:29,430 --> 01:31:26,320
here's a real quick story

2626
01:31:31,830 --> 01:31:29,440
so blue book had its one year of genuine

2627
01:31:34,149 --> 01:31:31,840
investigation in 1952 it was a huge year

2628
01:31:35,750 --> 01:31:34,159
for sightings in this country

2629
01:31:37,030 --> 01:31:35,760
it was also the final year of the harry

2630
01:31:38,950 --> 01:31:37,040
truman presidency it was the year

2631
01:31:40,550 --> 01:31:38,960
eisenhower got elected

2632
01:31:43,590 --> 01:31:40,560
and it was the year

2633
01:31:46,070 --> 01:31:43,600
in january 1953

2634
01:31:48,149 --> 01:31:46,080
the last weekend of harry truman's

2635
01:31:49,669 --> 01:31:48,159
presidency we had what was called the

2636
01:31:51,030 --> 01:31:49,679
robertson panel

2637
01:31:52,709 --> 01:31:51,040
and that was really the last bit of

2638
01:31:54,390 --> 01:31:52,719
house cleaning of the whole truman white

2639
01:31:55,669 --> 01:31:54,400
house years and what they were doing was

2640
01:31:58,390 --> 01:31:55,679
they were

2641
01:32:00,149 --> 01:31:58,400
packaging the ufo topic in a nice neat

2642
01:32:02,310 --> 01:32:00,159
little package for the eisenhower

2643
01:32:04,229 --> 01:32:02,320
administration so that there would not

2644
01:32:05,430 --> 01:32:04,239
be any loose ends this is how i see it

2645
01:32:08,149 --> 01:32:05,440
in other words what they did is they

2646
01:32:10,149 --> 01:32:08,159
convened a classified scientific group

2647
01:32:12,709 --> 01:32:10,159
to study ufos

2648
01:32:14,790 --> 01:32:12,719
and it was a whitewashed absolutely it

2649
01:32:16,229 --> 01:32:14,800
was why wash and what they

2650
01:32:19,189 --> 01:32:16,239
essentially did

2651
01:32:21,350 --> 01:32:19,199
was to take this topic out of most of

2652
01:32:23,110 --> 01:32:21,360
even the classified world

2653
01:32:25,669 --> 01:32:23,120
and bring it into a much more

2654
01:32:27,430 --> 01:32:25,679
restrictive environment

2655
01:32:29,990 --> 01:32:27,440
and that included gutting project blue

2656
01:32:32,310 --> 01:32:30,000
book so after the robertson panel

2657
01:32:34,229 --> 01:32:32,320
project blue book was was totally you

2658
01:32:36,629 --> 01:32:34,239
know useless

2659
01:32:38,709 --> 01:32:36,639
and what we know is that by the i think

2660
01:32:40,709 --> 01:32:38,719
1954 you know shortly after that there

2661
01:32:42,550 --> 01:32:40,719
was a directive that came right down

2662
01:32:43,990 --> 01:32:42,560
to blue book and and it made it clear

2663
01:32:46,629 --> 01:32:44,000
you are to get

2664
01:32:49,030 --> 01:32:46,639
the unknowns down from twenty percent

2665
01:32:50,550 --> 01:32:49,040
which is what they were year after year

2666
01:32:52,390 --> 01:32:50,560
down to five percent down to three

2667
01:32:53,430 --> 01:32:52,400
percent down as low as you can every

2668
01:32:55,990 --> 01:32:53,440
year

2669
01:32:57,350 --> 01:32:56,000
doesn't matter how if something is a

2670
01:32:59,430 --> 01:32:57,360
possible

2671
01:33:01,510 --> 01:32:59,440
um weather balloon then you're going to

2672
01:33:03,189 --> 01:33:01,520
say weather balloon if it's a possible

2673
01:33:05,030 --> 01:33:03,199
flock of seagulls you're going to say

2674
01:33:06,709 --> 01:33:05,040
flock of seagulls and that literally

2675
01:33:10,629 --> 01:33:06,719
became the directive so

2676
01:33:12,790 --> 01:33:10,639
the blue book statistics are worthless

2677
01:33:14,790 --> 01:33:12,800
steve morello i wanted to add something

2678
01:33:17,430 --> 01:33:14,800
a little experience here

2679
01:33:19,350 --> 01:33:17,440
in in the mufon database i know for a

2680
01:33:21,830 --> 01:33:19,360
fact that a lot of

2681
01:33:24,709 --> 01:33:21,840
um and alex can attest to this too a lot

2682
01:33:26,950 --> 01:33:24,719
of cases that were were still un open we

2683
01:33:29,510 --> 01:33:26,960
we hadn't figured out what they were

2684
01:33:31,030 --> 01:33:29,520
we're just you know that no it was it

2685
01:33:32,629 --> 01:33:31,040
was a balloon it was venus it was

2686
01:33:34,790 --> 01:33:32,639
whatever i mean they were they were

2687
01:33:37,030 --> 01:33:34,800
literally closed on us

2688
01:33:38,629 --> 01:33:37,040
mufon was doing this yeah yeah and now

2689
01:33:40,550 --> 01:33:38,639
playing the blue book game i won't say

2690
01:33:42,709 --> 01:33:40,560
who was doing it but i mean they were

2691
01:33:45,350 --> 01:33:42,719
doing it i mean alex he'll raise your

2692
01:33:47,110 --> 01:33:45,360
hand if i'm telling i mean

2693
01:33:49,430 --> 01:33:47,120
i mean we were frustrated because some

2694
01:33:51,270 --> 01:33:49,440
these were some of the best cases

2695
01:33:53,110 --> 01:33:51,280
you know they were open they they were

2696
01:33:55,110 --> 01:33:53,120
mysteries and we could not figure them

2697
01:33:56,470 --> 01:33:55,120
out we were still waiting for witnesses

2698
01:33:58,310 --> 01:33:56,480
to come forward we were interviewing

2699
01:34:00,229 --> 01:33:58,320
witnesses what happened we were working

2700
01:34:01,750 --> 01:34:00,239
on these cases and yet oh no you got to

2701
01:34:04,149 --> 01:34:01,760
close that out it's

2702
01:34:06,070 --> 01:34:04,159
swamp gas okay if we if we get the

2703
01:34:07,750 --> 01:34:06,080
chance later you know i have some words

2704
01:34:10,070 --> 01:34:07,760
to say about groups like mufon and i'll

2705
01:34:11,510 --> 01:34:10,080
be very happy to give my my take on what

2706
01:34:14,870 --> 01:34:11,520
you know

2707
01:34:17,110 --> 01:34:14,880
look mufon uh i think is

2708
01:34:20,470 --> 01:34:17,120
full of a lot of very sincere people oh

2709
01:34:23,590 --> 01:34:20,480
absolutely and i i don't and and

2710
01:34:26,229 --> 01:34:23,600
this show i don't want it to turn into

2711
01:34:28,790 --> 01:34:26,239
any vehicle like that except i will i

2712
01:34:31,510 --> 01:34:28,800
will say this come on very

2713
01:34:34,390 --> 01:34:31,520
very publicly dude i have had

2714
01:34:35,750 --> 01:34:34,400
i have had more people more guests come

2715
01:34:38,790 --> 01:34:35,760
on my show

2716
01:34:40,790 --> 01:34:38,800
and just express their disappointment

2717
01:34:43,430 --> 01:34:40,800
when they tried to get something done

2718
01:34:45,669 --> 01:34:43,440
tried to speak up saw something

2719
01:34:47,510 --> 01:34:45,679
wanted to be a mufon investigator the

2720
01:34:50,310 --> 01:34:47,520
list goes on and on and on and the

2721
01:34:53,110 --> 01:34:50,320
disappointment that they had with it um

2722
01:34:55,430 --> 01:34:53,120
and it's not about professionalism i

2723
01:34:57,669 --> 01:34:55,440
think they were it's more about training

2724
01:34:59,270 --> 01:34:57,679
and and what an investigator is expected

2725
01:35:01,750 --> 01:34:59,280
to do

2726
01:35:03,830 --> 01:35:01,760
manpower as well i mean they can't cover

2727
01:35:05,590 --> 01:35:03,840
every case but i have had guests on my

2728
01:35:08,470 --> 01:35:05,600
show it's it's it's almost every single

2729
01:35:10,310 --> 01:35:08,480
night uh the disappointment in move font

2730
01:35:11,590 --> 01:35:10,320
so it's a 40-year plan pattern it

2731
01:35:12,390 --> 01:35:11,600
doesn't change

2732
01:35:13,830 --> 01:35:12,400
and

2733
01:35:15,350 --> 01:35:13,840
all i'll just say is look this is an

2734
01:35:18,149 --> 01:35:15,360
organization that's existed since the

2735
01:35:19,990 --> 01:35:18,159
late 60s ufos are

2736
01:35:21,669 --> 01:35:20,000
the second i think the second most

2737
01:35:24,070 --> 01:35:21,679
popular topic on the internet every

2738
01:35:25,990 --> 01:35:24,080
everything's second to porn but ufos has

2739
01:35:28,870 --> 01:35:26,000
been there right from the beginning and

2740
01:35:30,550 --> 01:35:28,880
is incredibly popular and yet look let's

2741
01:35:33,830 --> 01:35:30,560
face it mufon's membership has been a

2742
01:35:35,110 --> 01:35:33,840
2000 forever i mean they can't why why

2743
01:35:37,270 --> 01:35:35,120
you have um

2744
01:35:39,189 --> 01:35:37,280
organizations that um i mean coast to

2745
01:35:40,229 --> 01:35:39,199
coast gets millions of listeners every

2746
01:35:41,830 --> 01:35:40,239
night you have

2747
01:35:43,430 --> 01:35:41,840
other radio programs like your own that

2748
01:35:45,910 --> 01:35:43,440
blows there's you certainly get more

2749
01:35:47,590 --> 01:35:45,920
than 2 000 listeners every time yes so

2750
01:35:51,669 --> 01:35:47,600
where what's what's going on with the

2751
01:35:53,189 --> 01:35:51,679
mufon um situation and why is it just so

2752
01:35:54,709 --> 01:35:53,199
obviously stagnant why do you have all

2753
01:35:56,149 --> 01:35:54,719
of these people talking about

2754
01:35:58,790 --> 01:35:56,159
information that goes in doesn't come

2755
01:36:00,950 --> 01:35:58,800
out and and the last thing i'll just say

2756
01:36:02,790 --> 01:36:00,960
is that they have a beef with me i'm

2757
01:36:04,149 --> 01:36:02,800
sure because the last i used to speak at

2758
01:36:07,030 --> 01:36:04,159
many of the mufon international

2759
01:36:08,629 --> 01:36:07,040
symposium last one i spoke out was three

2760
01:36:10,390 --> 01:36:08,639
years ago

2761
01:36:12,790 --> 01:36:10,400
and i haven't been invited back since

2762
01:36:15,189 --> 01:36:12,800
and i know why because i

2763
01:36:16,870 --> 01:36:15,199
just shocked the leadership at the time

2764
01:36:18,950 --> 01:36:16,880
by talking about the need for mufon to

2765
01:36:21,430 --> 01:36:18,960
reform the last 15 minutes of my own

2766
01:36:24,390 --> 01:36:21,440
talk and i they were not happy

2767
01:36:25,270 --> 01:36:24,400
very not very very very not happy i had

2768
01:36:26,709 --> 01:36:25,280
a

2769
01:36:30,229 --> 01:36:26,719
uh

2770
01:36:32,950 --> 01:36:30,239
i had a guest on antonio paris okay

2771
01:36:35,990 --> 01:36:32,960
uh and i'm sure you know antonio had him

2772
01:36:37,750 --> 01:36:36,000
on uh he runs an organization called api

2773
01:36:38,550 --> 01:36:37,760
i don't know him personally but you know

2774
01:36:40,390 --> 01:36:38,560
i know

2775
01:36:42,870 --> 01:36:40,400
right and he

2776
01:36:45,750 --> 01:36:42,880
he formed api because he couldn't get

2777
01:36:48,070 --> 01:36:45,760
work done at mufon and and he joined a

2778
01:36:50,629 --> 01:36:48,080
mufon he he came from he was a secret

2779
01:36:53,189 --> 01:36:50,639
agent you know 20 years of

2780
01:36:54,950 --> 01:36:53,199
of secret agent work in in the

2781
01:36:57,109 --> 01:36:54,960
government and he came out and he really

2782
01:36:59,270 --> 01:36:57,119
wanted to go you know uh balls to the

2783
01:37:01,189 --> 01:36:59,280
wall on the ufo subject and really go do

2784
01:37:03,270 --> 01:37:01,199
some hardcore investigating

2785
01:37:06,149 --> 01:37:03,280
didn't do anything and i think this was

2786
01:37:08,310 --> 01:37:06,159
in washington dc at that move on but uh

2787
01:37:10,709 --> 01:37:08,320
and so now we started api just like

2788
01:37:12,709 --> 01:37:10,719
steve is as started i'm just going to go

2789
01:37:14,629 --> 01:37:12,719
on a limb and lay my own analysis down a

2790
01:37:16,870 --> 01:37:14,639
bit and i can be very succinct you have

2791
01:37:19,350 --> 01:37:16,880
through the cold war the cia we know

2792
01:37:21,430 --> 01:37:19,360
this this is not speculation cia

2793
01:37:23,109 --> 01:37:21,440
controlled many many

2794
01:37:24,790 --> 01:37:23,119
uh over

2795
01:37:25,910 --> 01:37:24,800
organizations that were supposed to be

2796
01:37:27,830 --> 01:37:25,920
private

2797
01:37:30,310 --> 01:37:27,840
non-profit whatever and they were

2798
01:37:32,149 --> 01:37:30,320
totally cia creations and controlled

2799
01:37:33,750 --> 01:37:32,159
liberal conservative didn't matter what

2800
01:37:35,990 --> 01:37:33,760
they were doing was controlling the

2801
01:37:37,750 --> 01:37:36,000
range of debate and a lot of a lot of

2802
01:37:39,189 --> 01:37:37,760
these the famous example was a group

2803
01:37:41,350 --> 01:37:39,199
called the congress for cultural freedom

2804
01:37:44,149 --> 01:37:41,360
and we know it was a cia run group

2805
01:37:45,990 --> 01:37:44,159
the leader of it was not but the second

2806
01:37:48,149 --> 01:37:46,000
in charge was and that's what we call

2807
01:37:49,990 --> 01:37:48,159
the spook spot you know you because you

2808
01:37:52,070 --> 01:37:50,000
have to have a public face on an

2809
01:37:53,830 --> 01:37:52,080
organization that's um

2810
01:37:55,350 --> 01:37:53,840
legit but then you have people behind

2811
01:37:57,510 --> 01:37:55,360
who are really running it

2812
01:37:59,109 --> 01:37:57,520
and that was the case with a number of

2813
01:38:00,390 --> 01:37:59,119
these organizations and as i say there

2814
01:38:02,470 --> 01:38:00,400
have been some studies and i cite them

2815
01:38:04,629 --> 01:38:02,480
in my new book

2816
01:38:06,070 --> 01:38:04,639
what does mufon look like mufon looks

2817
01:38:08,310 --> 01:38:06,080
exactly like that

2818
01:38:09,830 --> 01:38:08,320
i can't prove it but do you have naval

2819
01:38:12,229 --> 01:38:09,840
intelligence air force intelligence

2820
01:38:15,030 --> 01:38:12,239
military i mean dominating the

2821
01:38:16,950 --> 01:38:15,040
running of that organization forever

2822
01:38:19,030 --> 01:38:16,960
and you have an organization that was

2823
01:38:20,470 --> 01:38:19,040
overtly non-political that pulled the

2824
01:38:22,470 --> 01:38:20,480
plug out of any kind of deep political

2825
01:38:24,709 --> 01:38:22,480
analysis for years

2826
01:38:26,870 --> 01:38:24,719
and um and then you have all of these

2827
01:38:28,470 --> 01:38:26,880
statements about investigations being

2828
01:38:30,229 --> 01:38:28,480
impeded i have a very very dear friend

2829
01:38:30,950 --> 01:38:30,239
chase klitsky who ran the mufon star

2830
01:38:33,109 --> 01:38:30,960
team

2831
01:38:34,790 --> 01:38:33,119
she created their protocols she talked

2832
01:38:36,950 --> 01:38:34,800
openly about

2833
01:38:39,109 --> 01:38:36,960
how all of those key investigations were

2834
01:38:41,669 --> 01:38:39,119
compromised by

2835
01:38:44,310 --> 01:38:41,679
basically an opaque board that uh you

2836
01:38:45,750 --> 01:38:44,320
know who are these people so yes i think

2837
01:38:48,070 --> 01:38:45,760
when you put all those pieces together

2838
01:38:50,310 --> 01:38:48,080
what's the point here's the point

2839
01:38:51,669 --> 01:38:50,320
it was to be a control group for people

2840
01:38:53,109 --> 01:38:51,679
who are interested in this topic to

2841
01:38:54,470 --> 01:38:53,119
corral them to keep them in a nice

2842
01:38:56,390 --> 01:38:54,480
little pen

2843
01:38:58,950 --> 01:38:56,400
and also not to grow the organization

2844
01:39:01,510 --> 01:38:58,960
the way it should be growing it should

2845
01:39:03,109 --> 01:39:01,520
be a worldwide with an actual base and

2846
01:39:04,870 --> 01:39:03,119
what happened with la mufan let's just

2847
01:39:06,229 --> 01:39:04,880
talk about it ellie mufon was one of the

2848
01:39:09,189 --> 01:39:06,239
most active

2849
01:39:12,709 --> 01:39:09,199
best ass kicking uh mufon groups in the

2850
01:39:15,189 --> 01:39:12,719
country period and got themselves

2851
01:39:17,189 --> 01:39:15,199
right and got themselves alienated from

2852
01:39:18,950 --> 01:39:17,199
the mufon leadership why who knows why

2853
01:39:20,229 --> 01:39:18,960
steve can answer that but i think

2854
01:39:21,270 --> 01:39:20,239
because you

2855
01:39:23,910 --> 01:39:21,280
you were

2856
01:39:26,709 --> 01:39:23,920
too popular too effective

2857
01:39:28,550 --> 01:39:26,719
i don't know steve steve's declining on

2858
01:39:29,669 --> 01:39:28,560
the record he's saying no i'm happy to

2859
01:39:32,310 --> 01:39:29,679
go on the record i don't mind talking

2860
01:39:37,189 --> 01:39:32,320
about this at all um you know i'll never

2861
01:39:42,790 --> 01:39:40,229
just for the controversy if they if they

2862
01:39:44,629 --> 01:39:42,800
allow the rebuttal you know um

2863
01:39:46,550 --> 01:39:44,639
you know i think i think he got down to

2864
01:39:48,550 --> 01:39:46,560
when you said lack of leadership um

2865
01:39:50,229 --> 01:39:48,560
earlier that well steve then i'm just

2866
01:39:52,310 --> 01:39:50,239
going to ask you in front of richard in

2867
01:39:54,950 --> 01:39:52,320
the crowd did you ever feel

2868
01:39:56,709 --> 01:39:54,960
hand hog tied did you ever no here's i

2869
01:39:58,790 --> 01:39:56,719
mean it was it was a very strange thing

2870
01:40:01,830 --> 01:39:58,800
they left us to our own devices when i

2871
01:40:03,750 --> 01:40:01,840
when i inherited mufon la um

2872
01:40:06,629 --> 01:40:03,760
we had nothing in the bank we went maybe

2873
01:40:08,310 --> 01:40:06,639
a couple hundred bucks and uh you know i

2874
01:40:10,070 --> 01:40:08,320
had some really good people that that

2875
01:40:12,950 --> 01:40:10,080
stayed on the board and we were able to

2876
01:40:14,390 --> 01:40:12,960
keep it going and through 13 years of it

2877
01:40:16,709 --> 01:40:14,400
and built the account up and all that

2878
01:40:18,229 --> 01:40:16,719
and we had you know we built up a crowd

2879
01:40:20,229 --> 01:40:18,239
you know when i was first coming to

2880
01:40:22,629 --> 01:40:20,239
mufon uh meetings there were just maybe

2881
01:40:26,390 --> 01:40:22,639
a half of this room coming and all

2882
01:40:28,629 --> 01:40:26,400
anyway i mean we just kept it going but

2883
01:40:30,629 --> 01:40:28,639
for most of that there was no leadership

2884
01:40:32,709 --> 01:40:30,639
there was no direction there was no

2885
01:40:35,669 --> 01:40:32,719
you know i mean here you have an

2886
01:40:38,870 --> 01:40:35,679
international organization supposedly

2887
01:40:40,390 --> 01:40:38,880
they should have a direction of vision

2888
01:40:42,550 --> 01:40:40,400
nothing was ever communicated in fact i

2889
01:40:45,189 --> 01:40:42,560
never heard from my my boss

2890
01:40:47,430 --> 01:40:45,199
for many many many years so i was i just

2891
01:40:49,990 --> 01:40:47,440
basically did whatever i wanted to uh

2892
01:40:51,350 --> 01:40:50,000
but we still had to investigate cases

2893
01:40:53,750 --> 01:40:51,360
through their database and with their

2894
01:40:56,070 --> 01:40:53,760
protocols and all that um

2895
01:40:57,750 --> 01:40:56,080
but yeah finally all of a sudden for

2896
01:40:59,669 --> 01:40:57,760
whatever reason my boss decided she

2897
01:41:01,030 --> 01:40:59,679
wanted to get back involved 13 years

2898
01:41:03,990 --> 01:41:01,040
later she wanted to get back into the

2899
01:41:05,430 --> 01:41:04,000
game and she started harassing the field

2900
01:41:07,030 --> 01:41:05,440
investigators

2901
01:41:08,470 --> 01:41:07,040
to the point where

2902
01:41:10,550 --> 01:41:08,480
alex who was the director of field

2903
01:41:13,750 --> 01:41:10,560
investigation stood up to her and then

2904
01:41:15,430 --> 01:41:13,760
she had him removed and then without

2905
01:41:16,629 --> 01:41:15,440
asking me or any kind of

2906
01:41:18,550 --> 01:41:16,639
you know

2907
01:41:21,189 --> 01:41:18,560
not even a phone call or an email just

2908
01:41:22,950 --> 01:41:21,199
boom there goes alex and then so i i

2909
01:41:26,470 --> 01:41:22,960
challenged her on it and then there goes

2910
01:41:28,550 --> 01:41:26,480
me you know so that's how it went but

2911
01:41:31,109 --> 01:41:28,560
i've never i i in all those years i'd

2912
01:41:33,350 --> 01:41:31,119
never been impressed with any kind of

2913
01:41:35,910 --> 01:41:33,360
leadership um

2914
01:41:37,510 --> 01:41:35,920
you know i'd gone to the conferences and

2915
01:41:39,270 --> 01:41:37,520
you know i mean if you're the

2916
01:41:41,109 --> 01:41:39,280
international head of mufon you want to

2917
01:41:42,790 --> 01:41:41,119
meet your chapters and shake hands at

2918
01:41:44,390 --> 01:41:42,800
least there was none of that i mean it

2919
01:41:46,310 --> 01:41:44,400
was basically you're on your own you

2920
01:41:47,430 --> 01:41:46,320
know there's there's just nothing there

2921
01:41:49,430 --> 01:41:47,440
and um

2922
01:41:51,270 --> 01:41:49,440
i would love to see that change if it's

2923
01:41:53,669 --> 01:41:51,280
not mufon it's you know something

2924
01:41:56,550 --> 01:41:53,679
legitimate that really wants to look at

2925
01:41:59,189 --> 01:41:56,560
the phenomenon you know didn't didn't uh

2926
01:42:00,870 --> 01:41:59,199
and both of you can touch upon this but

2927
01:42:03,109 --> 01:42:00,880
weren't these the same concerns that

2928
01:42:08,070 --> 01:42:03,119
bigelow had

2929
01:42:09,910 --> 01:42:08,080
concerns about mufon yes

2930
01:42:12,229 --> 01:42:09,920
well that's that's a messy issue the

2931
01:42:13,669 --> 01:42:12,239
whole mufon bigelow connection and uh i

2932
01:42:16,229 --> 01:42:13,679
mean

2933
01:42:17,750 --> 01:42:16,239
it seems to me that that um we don't

2934
01:42:19,430 --> 01:42:17,760
have to open the door to this on this

2935
01:42:21,350 --> 01:42:19,440
show i don't know if i have all of the

2936
01:42:22,709 --> 01:42:21,360
answers and i'm so i'm hesitant to jump

2937
01:42:24,870 --> 01:42:22,719
in on it it's something that i'm still

2938
01:42:26,870 --> 01:42:24,880
actively looking into yeah myself

2939
01:42:28,390 --> 01:42:26,880
included i'd like to get him on the show

2940
01:42:29,830 --> 01:42:28,400
and not to do an end run we can return

2941
01:42:31,350 --> 01:42:29,840
to it but i just want to point out that

2942
01:42:32,629 --> 01:42:31,360
mufon is not the only example of

2943
01:42:34,149 --> 01:42:32,639
probable intelligence community

2944
01:42:36,550 --> 01:42:34,159
infiltration you have

2945
01:42:38,229 --> 01:42:36,560
known examples of prior ufo groups the

2946
01:42:40,870 --> 01:42:38,239
apro aerial research phenomena

2947
01:42:44,470 --> 01:42:40,880
organization infiltrated absolutely by

2948
01:42:46,390 --> 01:42:44,480
intel nycap uh the powerhouse of the 50s

2949
01:42:50,229 --> 01:42:46,400
and 60s trying to end ufo secrecy

2950
01:42:52,229 --> 01:42:50,239
clearly decimated by uh cia individuals

2951
01:42:53,109 --> 01:42:52,239
at the end of its of its career so we

2952
01:42:55,830 --> 01:42:53,119
know

2953
01:42:57,430 --> 01:42:55,840
this is an example and it just it seems

2954
01:42:58,709 --> 01:42:57,440
ridiculous to think that mufon's going

2955
01:43:01,510 --> 01:42:58,719
to be immune from it's the most

2956
01:43:03,030 --> 01:43:01,520
prominent ufo organization in the u.s so

2957
01:43:05,350 --> 01:43:03,040
i think they'll be targeting i have a

2958
01:43:06,390 --> 01:43:05,360
bunch of questions that have come in uh

2959
01:43:08,470 --> 01:43:06,400
on the uh

2960
01:43:11,109 --> 01:43:08,480
on the internet here's this this one's

2961
01:43:12,950 --> 01:43:11,119
from renee and it's really good she says

2962
01:43:15,830 --> 01:43:12,960
why are we concentrating too much on the

2963
01:43:18,070 --> 01:43:15,840
specifics of sightings and evidence

2964
01:43:20,550 --> 01:43:18,080
and the physical realities of the et's

2965
01:43:22,470 --> 01:43:20,560
in their craft rather than the messages

2966
01:43:24,790 --> 01:43:22,480
that they are sending

2967
01:43:26,229 --> 01:43:24,800
well i would say that um you know we

2968
01:43:28,550 --> 01:43:26,239
want to look at everything we want to

2969
01:43:30,310 --> 01:43:28,560
look at the sum total of everything

2970
01:43:33,109 --> 01:43:30,320
the reason i i still think it is

2971
01:43:34,709 --> 01:43:33,119
important to look at the data

2972
01:43:37,430 --> 01:43:34,719
is because without

2973
01:43:39,669 --> 01:43:37,440
without really good verified data

2974
01:43:40,950 --> 01:43:39,679
as i would often say talk is cheap it's

2975
01:43:42,950 --> 01:43:40,960
easy for people to say anything they

2976
01:43:46,550 --> 01:43:42,960
want if you're really going to persuade

2977
01:43:47,910 --> 01:43:46,560
a deeply skeptical world

2978
01:43:49,430 --> 01:43:47,920
that this is

2979
01:43:52,709 --> 01:43:49,440
worthy of interest

2980
01:43:54,390 --> 01:43:52,719
we actually need groups like mufon doing

2981
01:43:56,470 --> 01:43:54,400
feed on the ground investigations and

2982
01:43:59,189 --> 01:43:56,480
actually putting putting reliable

2983
01:44:00,790 --> 01:43:59,199
reports together so that they can

2984
01:44:02,950 --> 01:44:00,800
actually make a case and say look this

2985
01:44:04,550 --> 01:44:02,960
is what's going on exactly uh you know

2986
01:44:06,470 --> 01:44:04,560
youtube video alone i gotta do squat

2987
01:44:08,229 --> 01:44:06,480
that's that's nothing that doesn't count

2988
01:44:11,430 --> 01:44:08,239
as evidence anymore unfortunately you

2989
01:44:13,189 --> 01:44:11,440
have to have you have to have a lot of

2990
01:44:14,629 --> 01:44:13,199
testimony put together you have to make

2991
01:44:17,350 --> 01:44:14,639
a case

2992
01:44:18,790 --> 01:44:17,360
and and so it's necessary sorry but you

2993
01:44:21,750 --> 01:44:18,800
have to get in you get your hands dirty

2994
01:44:23,270 --> 01:44:21,760
and do investigation now messages uh

2995
01:44:25,669 --> 01:44:23,280
this individual i don't want to presume

2996
01:44:27,350 --> 01:44:25,679
but perhaps uh she's referring to

2997
01:44:29,510 --> 01:44:27,360
messages that people have gotten from

2998
01:44:31,510 --> 01:44:29,520
beings or that they believe that they've

2999
01:44:33,189 --> 01:44:31,520
gone from beings

3000
01:44:34,870 --> 01:44:33,199
i think that that's

3001
01:44:36,550 --> 01:44:34,880
an important part of it is something

3002
01:44:38,390 --> 01:44:36,560
that i also i try to deal with in this

3003
01:44:40,390 --> 01:44:38,400
book there are many many people who've

3004
01:44:41,910 --> 01:44:40,400
gotten what they believe

3005
01:44:43,350 --> 01:44:41,920
are what they might call downloads or

3006
01:44:45,830 --> 01:44:43,360
they may believe that they've had direct

3007
01:44:48,390 --> 01:44:45,840
communication with with um entities of

3008
01:44:50,070 --> 01:44:48,400
one sort or another that's a fascinating

3009
01:44:51,910 --> 01:44:50,080
and important part

3010
01:44:53,990 --> 01:44:51,920
of this topic

3011
01:44:58,470 --> 01:44:54,000
and we don't want to ignore it but we

3012
01:45:01,590 --> 01:45:00,149
those messages may

3013
01:45:03,030 --> 01:45:01,600
or may not be accurate and they may or

3014
01:45:04,709 --> 01:45:03,040
may not be truthful

3015
01:45:06,790 --> 01:45:04,719
ask yourself a question if you're going

3016
01:45:08,790 --> 01:45:06,800
back in time to another human village a

3017
01:45:11,910 --> 01:45:08,800
thousand years ago how much can you tell

3018
01:45:14,870 --> 01:45:11,920
them about what you know nothing at all

3019
01:45:16,550 --> 01:45:14,880
no not without their heads going pop um

3020
01:45:18,229 --> 01:45:16,560
you know there's only so much that and

3021
01:45:19,750 --> 01:45:18,239
that's if we have their best intentions

3022
01:45:21,750 --> 01:45:19,760
if we didn't have their best intentions

3023
01:45:23,910 --> 01:45:21,760
we could really screw with them right so

3024
01:45:25,109 --> 01:45:23,920
assuming that other intelligences are

3025
01:45:27,109 --> 01:45:25,119
always going to be truthful in their

3026
01:45:29,350 --> 01:45:27,119
communications maybe they're telling us

3027
01:45:31,030 --> 01:45:29,360
what they think we need to know so then

3028
01:45:33,669 --> 01:45:31,040
maybe that's good enough

3029
01:45:35,910 --> 01:45:33,679
um the point is simply that

3030
01:45:37,750 --> 01:45:35,920
there are people who have talked about

3031
01:45:38,709 --> 01:45:37,760
messages there are people who let's say

3032
01:45:41,669 --> 01:45:38,719
channeled

3033
01:45:43,830 --> 01:45:41,679
message that's ever been given i think

3034
01:45:45,910 --> 01:45:43,840
you'd be a very confused person because

3035
01:45:48,390 --> 01:45:45,920
there's a very wide range

3036
01:45:50,149 --> 01:45:48,400
of what has been told and and that is

3037
01:45:51,669 --> 01:45:50,159
the problem i'm not saying it's

3038
01:45:53,910 --> 01:45:51,679
impossible that people have gotten

3039
01:45:55,669 --> 01:45:53,920
communications but i i do say we want to

3040
01:45:57,669 --> 01:45:55,679
be cautious with it

3041
01:46:00,229 --> 01:45:57,679
yeah i'd agree with it i'd agree with

3042
01:46:02,709 --> 01:46:00,239
that i mean case in point abduction you

3043
01:46:04,229 --> 01:46:02,719
know um we're here for your you know

3044
01:46:06,149 --> 01:46:04,239
well-being and we're going to help help

3045
01:46:08,790 --> 01:46:06,159
further mankind yet

3046
01:46:10,870 --> 01:46:08,800
the end result of an abductee is someone

3047
01:46:12,709 --> 01:46:10,880
who uh can become emotionally unstable

3048
01:46:16,390 --> 01:46:12,719
and their life gets ruined so how is

3049
01:46:17,990 --> 01:46:16,400
that helping them you fall um yeah so

3050
01:46:20,470 --> 01:46:18,000
there's a lot of contradictory messages

3051
01:46:22,470 --> 01:46:20,480
going on and who do you believe well

3052
01:46:25,270 --> 01:46:22,480
zoltan from the planet reticuli or the

3053
01:46:27,510 --> 01:46:25,280
next guy who's you know but you touch it

3054
01:46:29,590 --> 01:46:27,520
steve you touch on a good point and it's

3055
01:46:31,830 --> 01:46:29,600
exactly what richard was talking about

3056
01:46:34,229 --> 01:46:31,840
is it's easy

3057
01:46:36,950 --> 01:46:34,239
for anybody that wants to show that

3058
01:46:38,950 --> 01:46:36,960
somebody is unstable is bring somebody

3059
01:46:40,470 --> 01:46:38,960
in the picture that is claiming that

3060
01:46:42,629 --> 01:46:40,480
they're in a you know

3061
01:46:44,950 --> 01:46:42,639
they've been abducted well they're

3062
01:46:47,590 --> 01:46:44,960
immediately labeled because of

3063
01:46:49,510 --> 01:46:47,600
the covers of every national enquirer

3064
01:46:50,550 --> 01:46:49,520
and star magazine that these people are

3065
01:46:52,709 --> 01:46:50,560
crazy

3066
01:46:55,189 --> 01:46:52,719
and that is where it's coming from and

3067
01:46:59,350 --> 01:46:55,199
the way that organizations like mufon

3068
01:47:02,470 --> 01:47:00,950
everybody okay i heard something what

3069
01:47:04,070 --> 01:47:02,480
was that

3070
01:47:06,149 --> 01:47:04,080
don't know

3071
01:47:07,430 --> 01:47:06,159
okay i have another question here we go

3072
01:47:09,350 --> 01:47:07,440
another email

3073
01:47:12,229 --> 01:47:09,360
from msnbc

3074
01:47:14,149 --> 01:47:12,239
uh those guys who are speaking to you

3075
01:47:16,149 --> 01:47:14,159
richard that have told richard stuff

3076
01:47:19,430 --> 01:47:16,159
government types hinted at a possible

3077
01:47:21,430 --> 01:47:19,440
disclosure event have they hinted at a

3078
01:47:24,070 --> 01:47:21,440
possible disclosure event or have they

3079
01:47:26,229 --> 01:47:24,080
provided reasons why it is not

3080
01:47:28,149 --> 01:47:26,239
convenient to happen that's a great

3081
01:47:31,669 --> 01:47:28,159
question it is

3082
01:47:33,350 --> 01:47:31,679
i'm thinking the the few the few

3083
01:47:35,270 --> 01:47:33,360
really good conversations that i've had

3084
01:47:37,350 --> 01:47:35,280
with a couple of a couple of different

3085
01:47:38,950 --> 01:47:37,360
individuals on this

3086
01:47:41,109 --> 01:47:38,960
uh the last

3087
01:47:43,990 --> 01:47:41,119
such conversation i had i i was left

3088
01:47:45,910 --> 01:47:44,000
with the idea from this individual

3089
01:47:46,950 --> 01:47:45,920
that that's not really a good time right

3090
01:47:48,310 --> 01:47:46,960
now

3091
01:47:51,750 --> 01:47:48,320
uh

3092
01:47:53,510 --> 01:47:51,760
you know i think the fear is over oh and

3093
01:47:56,070 --> 01:47:53,520
actually i'm almost forgetting i had a

3094
01:47:57,830 --> 01:47:56,080
recent communication with

3095
01:48:01,750 --> 01:47:57,840
i haven't met this one individual but an

3096
01:48:02,950 --> 01:48:01,760
exceedingly intelligent person who had

3097
01:48:04,390 --> 01:48:02,960
seemingly i think had a lot of black

3098
01:48:06,149 --> 01:48:04,400
budget experience

3099
01:48:08,149 --> 01:48:06,159
and the argument that he said is look

3100
01:48:11,189 --> 01:48:08,159
there are too many people

3101
01:48:12,390 --> 01:48:11,199
who whose asses are on the line and uh

3102
01:48:14,390 --> 01:48:12,400
and this is really the same thing that

3103
01:48:15,590 --> 01:48:14,400
this other individual had previously

3104
01:48:16,550 --> 01:48:15,600
said to me there are people who are

3105
01:48:19,030 --> 01:48:16,560
afraid

3106
01:48:22,229 --> 01:48:19,040
of legal ramifications

3107
01:48:23,910 --> 01:48:22,239
of being uh prosecuted

3108
01:48:25,510 --> 01:48:23,920
for

3109
01:48:28,550 --> 01:48:25,520
you know what really can be argued

3110
01:48:30,550 --> 01:48:28,560
criminal withholding of um

3111
01:48:32,950 --> 01:48:30,560
of this important matter from the world

3112
01:48:35,510 --> 01:48:32,960
and um and of subverting our legal

3113
01:48:37,189 --> 01:48:35,520
system in the process of doing it

3114
01:48:38,550 --> 01:48:37,199
so i think there's a lot of there's a

3115
01:48:41,030 --> 01:48:38,560
lot of fear

3116
01:48:42,629 --> 01:48:41,040
among those people who have the sugar

3117
01:48:44,629 --> 01:48:42,639
i have been

3118
01:48:46,229 --> 01:48:44,639
given to believe that there are

3119
01:48:48,790 --> 01:48:46,239
definitely factions within that

3120
01:48:51,189 --> 01:48:48,800
community some of whom think that

3121
01:48:53,669 --> 01:48:51,199
that it is time to get this secret up

3122
01:48:55,430 --> 01:48:53,679
one individual um who was plugged into

3123
01:48:57,270 --> 01:48:55,440
this back in the late 90s so this is

3124
01:49:00,629 --> 01:48:57,280
going back a little bit now

3125
01:49:02,790 --> 01:49:00,639
but said that he came across um he had a

3126
01:49:05,270 --> 01:49:02,800
very detailed conversation with a

3127
01:49:06,470 --> 01:49:05,280
a four-star general who was in the whole

3128
01:49:08,470 --> 01:49:06,480
thing

3129
01:49:09,590 --> 01:49:08,480
and the story was that there was a

3130
01:49:11,510 --> 01:49:09,600
rift

3131
01:49:12,870 --> 01:49:11,520
in the international group that was

3132
01:49:14,629 --> 01:49:12,880
managing this

3133
01:49:15,830 --> 01:49:14,639
and the rift was between those who

3134
01:49:17,270 --> 01:49:15,840
wanted to

3135
01:49:19,189 --> 01:49:17,280
give up the secret and those who didn't

3136
01:49:20,950 --> 01:49:19,199
and and it was between the younger and

3137
01:49:22,470 --> 01:49:20,960
the older generation the older

3138
01:49:25,270 --> 01:49:22,480
generation thought it was time to give

3139
01:49:27,750 --> 01:49:25,280
up the secret the younger generation had

3140
01:49:30,470 --> 01:49:27,760
not finished making all their money on

3141
01:49:32,390 --> 01:49:30,480
the secret that was basically it

3142
01:49:34,149 --> 01:49:32,400
and they were the hardliners

3143
01:49:35,669 --> 01:49:34,159
we're going to take a 10 minute break

3144
01:49:37,910 --> 01:49:35,679
how does that sound to everybody we'll

3145
01:49:40,149 --> 01:49:37,920
take a quick 10 minute break

3146
01:49:42,229 --> 01:49:40,159
sounds good all right just absolutely

3147
01:49:44,470 --> 01:49:42,239
amazing richard dolan will be back at

3148
01:49:46,229 --> 01:49:44,480
nine o'clock everybody stretch your legs

3149
01:49:47,510 --> 01:49:46,239
this is kjcr

3150
01:49:49,430 --> 01:49:47,520
fade to black